Form for forms sake?

Question

This has been an old one of mine for some years and just wanted to know what other people views are on the subject.

How many people practice forms without question!

I know people in certain styles do this for gradings but was wondering how many ask their instructors what it is they are doing and why and i dont mean Bunkai

Many thanks

Idai

Is it the form and correct duplication or is it the feeling and principles that the form is trying to teach you?

Are forms like books in that it depends on how much knowledge you already have as to how you interprit them?

Answer 1

Blind devotion to doing forms because some teacher says so is a waste of time. Without a true study of the underlying principles and movements, it's just a dance without meaning.

However, it must be understood that originally some forms devised by a teacher of the past was typically intended to help a student develop some skill or physical aspect. Other forms may have been created as a "reference manual", as reminder of the proper execution of particular movements. The problem is as time and interpretation colored how a form was performed, part or all of the original intended purpose may have been lost for aesthetic concerns.

Personally, I have practiced forms both for exercise and with an aim for developing my own attributes of balance and movement. However, I do not hold the illusion that just doing forms as I learned them will someday make me an invincible fighter.

Answer 2

Forms or Kata are designed to teach you how to transition from one point to another and one technique to another. Many schools do not take the time to explain the details of the form until you reach higher levels. At the beginner level, we are told not to question, but simply do. You can say that this is wrong, but if the instructor stops his class to answer every question for every student it stops the flow of the class and very little practice is done. This is also a result of class sizes that are too large for the instructor. He has to be able to observe the entire class and make corrections to their technique. At higher levels, the class sizes are usually smaller and the students have a better overall understanding of the techniques and the explanations can be much shorter.

There is another reason you are told to do forms without question at the beginner level. You must also learn to act without thought. If the instructor yells "Duck!", you duck. If you stop and think "Why am I ducking?", you get hit. Either way, you have learned the lesson but one is less painful than the other.

On the subject of grading. I've never been a big fan of the whole grading process. Most 'tests' are just demonstrations for the parents to let them see what their money is paying for. I've even had tests where the majority of the test was behind closed doors, but the forms and sparring were done for the audience.

Answer 3

In most older styles there are forms that are now or always were useless in real life. Most had some idea behind them such as strength building or a specific move they wanted the student to learn, but today those ideas are lost in the ritual of the forms. This is one reason I study Kempo, they have removed several "unused" forms that have no practical application. To counter this we use traditional strength building and balance building exercises since these may have been the purpose of those older forms.

I ask a lot of questions in my lessons. I try to save my questions until after if we are in group class, but in private lessons I'll usually ask right away. Often times they are simply about details I'm unsure of but sometimes they are also about where we would use this form or how that form helps us in the real world.

Answer 4

In my schools none of our forms are 'empty' or without purpose. If they are not a form to learn the manoeuvres and energy flow behind a weapon then they are all application based. When we practise a form, whether it be Wu Hsing, Tun Tui, animal or even Tai Chi, we know what it is we are doing. To do it this way helps a student learn where to put their focus and intention. Even our younger students, 8 yrs and up, have an idea of what they are doing. They learn the moves in the form and then later we teach it to them as two person self defence applications.

Answer 5

I appreciate you asking this. I would definitely agree with my friend Rikzar that greater training would definitely result in all of the other qualities. I would also like to add that all the technique from years of training doesn't mean squat if you don't have the conditions to not gas out. Some people think because they know more than someone else they can defeat another in a matter of seconds. When facing another martial artist it is a ridiculous thought that you will be able to knock them out or defeat them in a matter of seconds if your conditions are not as high as your opponent. That is one reason you won't find me spending so much time here in the future as I have a fight to train for starting tommorow and for the next few months. So with greater training, in my opinion comes more skill, greater endurance, and all the fine qualities that you have listed here. Aloha

Answer 6

hi there,

do you mean katas? sort of a routine?...apologies, i am fairly new to this

when asked to do a kata by my sensei he explained exactly why we did them.

he said that it was about focus, concentration, and to get your stances and moves right.

for example when you strike in the kata are you in a strong stance? is your fighting stance stable, are your feet firmly on the floor, you heels arent raised are they?

what about your punches, are your shoulders back? body straight forward?hips facing forward?

in an every day situation its things like these that you need to get right, and need to improve, a punch is a punch...but if you get your stance right and get your whole body behind your punch (the movement from your feet, to your hips then through your shoulder o your arms and fist) then your punch is more than a punch, it becomes a deadly weapon...

in my club we focus upon just one kata but use different blocks/strikes in different bits. this is the eian kata (forgive my spelling) this is commonly known as the "H" or capital "I" kata.

we just focus upon the stances in the kata, the focus, the concentration... put power behind our punches, block like we are being physically attacked and put the power behind our KIAI and not just shout the word, but scream it from the stomach...

our instructor, my sensei, always explains why we do things and wht we shall gain from it, he doesnt just lead us blindly.

i hope that was of some help to you. my MA is jujitsu, karate and ninjitsu all in one, offically recognised as the go-shin-ryu club.

again hope that helped you

x

Answer 7

from what I am told...forms breed good fighting. If you are proficient at forms, you will be able to dissect parts of the forms, and use them in combat.
Plus, my forms are part of my stripe check, as well as parts of my self defense. So if I don't practice my forms, I will not go to the next rank!

Answer 8

I take it that you a talking about Kata, if so each movement/technique should be put into practise, other wise there is no point, unless it is in certain stance's used for leg power.

Answer 9

katas (forms) are pretty useless. in fact, martial arts as a whole are pretty darn useless and will get your **** kicked in the street. ok? thats a fact. so the only purpose forms can possibly serve is to waste your time