Isn't the term "Gypsy" derogatory?

Question

I always read this term here in the questions regarding different people who were persecuted and killed by the Nazis. "Gypsy" is the dictionary translation of the German term "Zigeuner" (I'm German) which is derogatory similarly like "*****", while the correct term in German now is "Sinti and Roma" (I mean some of them are Sinti and others are Roma), which are the words they use for themselves. I hesitate to use the word "Gypsy" because it sounds racist to me, but my question now is if it sounds derogatory for native English speakers and also if anyone understands what I mean if I write "Sinti and Roma". I use to answer these questions and I am irritated about the usage of words now.

If you have time I'd like to answer you an additional question: What are your associations with the word "Gypsy"? What comes to your mind? Isn't the word loaded with prejudice?

Answer 1

Thankyou for the excellent question and thankyou for some excellent answers.

"Gypsy" is now, indeed, considered derogatory. When I was growing up, my father used both "Rrom" and "Gypsy", usually "Rrom". It has degraded since then and is now, basically, derogatory.

The word "Gypsy" came from the mistaken belief that we came from Egypt while, in actuality, we came from India originally.

Gypsy is a blanket term under which many ethnicities are lumped, including the Rromani.

There is a large movement in the community to do away with that word but it is damned hear impossible to avoid. If I say "I am Rromani" I am met with "huh? Whazzat??" and no matter how I explain it I get "Ohhhhhhh you mean you're a GYPSY". I meet this with a grimace and an educating session.

Many of us still use the word Gypsy because of the above. Nobody knows what a Rromani is!

Unfortunately, there is now the "gypsy" criminal element. These are both ethnic "Gypsies" and also Gadje (non-Gypsies) who run around and perpetrate crime under the word "gypsy", thus sullying the word even further. Now, the "criminilization" of the word is increasing, making it even harder for honest Rromani (the vast majority of us) to live without predjudice.

One of the ways the community is trying to get away from this tripe is to NEVER use the word uncapitalized, if it is used at all. The community prefers to not use it at all. I believe the move to capitalize it as a way to "save" it is an effort doomed to failure.

The word Gypsy could have been a decent word except for the stereotyping that goes along with it. Look up my question on the matter. I addressed this very subject.

I am Rromani. I use both (the "G" always capitalized) but I prefer Rromani. I used Gypsy in the title of my question because I wanted people to notice it. I use Gypsy sometimes to simply avoid the constant "whazzat mean??" when I say Rromani.

There are many spellings of Rromani, both with and without the two "r"'s. The language in written form is not standardized yet. I use the two "r"s to refect the way the word is "rolled".

Personally, I am not offended at being called a Gypsy if the person does not mean it offensively.

Here is something most people do not realize. If you look in the questions I have answered, there is one from some cretin who said he wanted to purchase a Gypsy (spelled even that wrong) and it was OK because we are not human anyway.

There were very few outraged responses. Actually, other than myself... one.

Think about this: if someone asked the exact same question with the "N" word or even "Black", think of the outrage.

Answer 2

Isn't there a saying in Germany that goes "der Ton macht die Musik"? This holds true also with the term "Gypsy" and the term "Zigeuner". I am a Gypsy, a Sinto (amazing all those people who never have heard of Sinti and try to answer, LOL) and to me neither the word "Gyspy", as long as it is used in the right way, and with a capital letter denoting an ethnic group, as it should be - no one would write jew or muslim, would they now...

The word "Roma" only applies to those of that tribe of the Romani People for while all Roma are Romani not all Romani are Roma, regardless of what many of the self-proclaimed experts on the Romani People would like to make the world believe. It is, for instance, entirely false to claim that the Sinti are a tribe of the Roma. That is utter falsehood. The Sinti are a nation of the Romani People but are NOT Roma and hate to be called Roma.

The word "Gypsy" is loaded with prejudice in the same way as the word "Zigeuner" is but it depends who uses the word and how.

The word "Roma" is also used with the same racist undertones in countries of eastern Europe, such as Romania and Bulgaria. So what gives. We can't now go and use a different name again. Is it not the same for Jew?

M V Smith
General Secretary
Gypsy Union
http://gypsyunion.tripod.com

Answer 3

Is Gypsy A Derogatory Term

Answer 4

"Gypsy" means almost nothing to English speakers, as we have had very little contact with those tribes. Well, there is the English slang " to gip," which is negative and may have something to do with Romani, but no one really knows.

I am familiar with prejudice against Gypsies only because I lived for a time in Spain, where "gitano" is (Garcia Lorca excepted) about the worst thing you can be. I do know that Gypsies and Jews were slated for elimination in Nazi Germany, and that after war broke out, many of both cultures were slaughtered.

I do not personally know anyone with a prejudice against Gypsies, nor, for that matter do I know anyone, besides myself, who would have an idea of what "Sinti and Roma" might signify.

Answer 5

That is one very complex question, and I think that many of the answers already given here hold a piece of the truth. Yes, the word may have a history of being used prejudicially. However, that does not mean that everyone who uses it has that intention. As obelix states, few North Americans have much sense of any derogatory overtones that the word may have. In many cases, N. Americans use the word with a romantic connontation that reflects the popular image of the Roma as wanderers, free of restrictive ties to one place. Therefore, when Gershwin writes "You bring out the gypsy in me", he is writing about a lovers feeling that he would follow his beloved anywhere. Suzanne Vega's song "Gypsy" is about a poetic fellow who follows his heart wherever in the world it might lead him.

In other words, though the expression should be avoided because of its "loaded" meaning and ability to offend, you need to know the context before deciding if this person or that person meant to use it in a pejorative way.

Answer 6

The word "Zigeuner" stems from the Greek word "atsingani" meaning something in the lines of "untouchables". The word "gypsy" stems from the fact that many Romanies said that they were from Egypt when they arrived to Europe. I know that the word "Zigeuner" is considered to be derogatory, but I don't know if it's the same with the word "gypsy".
Personally I use the word Romanies to describe them as a people and Romani (Romani chib) to describe their language. It seems to be the PC thing to do.

The Spanish, Finnish and the largest group of Romanies in Germany calls themselves Sinte. So the word Sinte defines a group within the group.

I'm sorry to say that my encounters with the Romanies hasn't been pleasant. I try to not judge the whole people on the acts by a few, but it's a bit hard to do sometimes.

Answer 7

As above, the Society of Friends is often chosen. William Penn bought the state of Pennsylvania from the English king - lock, stock, and rivers. He was a Quaker, as was Richard Nixon. There are huge department stores in downtown Philadelphia owned and run be fifth/sixth generation Quakers, so there is nothing derogatory about the label. The Shakers were a smaller sect of Christians, and they were very interesting. They each vowed chastity when joining the order... I'm not ready for that! The Shakers were responsible for many advances in technology and thinking compared to their population, and there is yet at least one Shaker community in New England - or somewhere around here.

Answer 8

I am Rumnichel and the word "Gypsy" does not offend me unless it is used in an offensive way. The other day democratic hopeful for the president Joe Biden made a comment about his opponent, "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy". This made people mad and it contained no offensive words. Yet it offended. I do get offended when people say they were "gypped" by their auto mechanic. Then again I don't really like it when people try to give me the "rule of thumb" either. (It dates back to when mean were allowed to beat their wives with sticks, as long as the stick was no bigger than the man's thumb". Words as they say are sharper than the sword. Feel free to use "Gypsy" when you want, just don't perpetuate stereotypes when you do it. And yes, this is for the answerers above who think they know so much: They were persecuted by the Nazi's and 2, they were referred to by the gadje as Gypsies because they looked like they came from Egypt. We were give that name we didn't take it. Just as the term ***** was given to the blacks.

Answer 9

They call themselves "Roma" in their native language from "rom" meaning "man" or "human being." They are called Gypsies in English, gitanos in Spanish and tsigani in Romanian (metathesis) because they were once thought to have come from Egypt. In reality their language is closely related to the Pashto, Punjabi and Hindi languages of northern India and Pakistan. Their ancestors were driven out of the region by Muslim invaders in the 9th century A.D. and forced to flee to Europe.

Although "Gypsy" is a misnomer I have never regarded it personally as a derogatory term for these people. There are lots of people in the world whose names derive from what their neighbors call them rather than what they call themselves. This includes the Apaches, the Eskimos, the Sioux, the Lapps, the Greeks and the Swiss (Who call themselves "Helvetians") just to name a few. Another analogy to Roma might be "Boricua' or "Boricuan" which is what a minority of Puerto Ricans prefer to be called. Yet, most Puerto Ricans don't seem to object to their more common name.

I think that it is optional whether you want use "Roma" or "Gypsies" unless you meet some who specifically tell you that they would rather be called Roma. Then, in that case I would go ahead and call them Roma.

Answer 10

You are right, the term is derogatory and not correct:

"For Rroma organizations and other human rights groups, the ethnic designation as Rrom (pl. Rroma, adj. Rromani) is a matter of self-determination, self-identification. A comparison may be made with the Inuit of North America who were formerly referred to as "Eskimos" - an externally applied name. The principle of self-identification involves public acknowledgment of the self-designated name and the implementation of its use."
[...]
"Members of Rroma associations have recommended the use of double "r", which corresponds more specifically to the pronunciation in most Rromani dialects. Likewise, this spelling may help to avoid confusion between the ethnic designation and other patronymic stems such as Romania, Rome, Romand (a region in Italy), Romanism (Roman Catholicism), etc."

"The Sinti are a group of Rroma whose vocabulary and grammer have been heavily influenced by German)."