The proof in God?

Question

Is there any 'proof' of Christianity other than a 2000 year old 'chinese whisper'? I am looking for any actual proof that the Christian God exists.

The Bible is not proof. Just as the Harry Potter book series is not proof that Harry Potter and magic exist.
The fact non-believers wrote about Jesus is not proof either; authors have written/spoken about fictional characters from books not written by them.

I would just like to confirm that I am an Atheist.

The best answer i have chosen, although flawed, sounds pretty original to me.
Its flaw is that as soon as one being has the ability to foresee all the future then there is no longer any free will. God apparently gave us free will and yet can see into the future and so can see what we will do and what will happen to us. This installs fate and in my opinion fate denies free will.

Answer 1

Thanks for the links J.P./Utuk. Not a 'proof' I had looked at before. Though on first (and very brief) glance strikes me as tautological, nonetheless. I may have to study this in more detail.

But to answer your question thomasgilboy, how about this?

God (of the book people, at least) created Adam and Eve with free will, albeit without knowledge of good and evil. He 'permitted' them to sin (well, He is supposed to be omniscient, isn't He, so he must have known about the serpent thing and the tree?)

The Bible shows that God goes on to repeatedly 'test' people (Abraham, Job, the Israelites).

So my argument is that God values the quality of 'free will' with which he equipped his creation, Yes?

If there was 'proof' only an idiot, or someone plain bloody minded could deny it. At which point the concept of 'free will' rather goes out of the window, doesn't it?

So, if God exists He could not allow any proof of His existence or He would undermine His gift of free will. And if God does not exist, there will be no proof of His existence either, will there? So, no, there cannot be proof.

Well, that's my twopenn'orth, at least! Does that help?

.

Answer 2

May I suggest you adopt Christ for at least a short while as a mere ethical teacher? What he had to say is in my opinion far more important than who he was. His ethical innovations were many many centuries ahead of their time.

If only Christians listened to them and practiced his lessons Christianity would be a far more appealing religion than it is, though I'd still reject it for the supernatural baggage.

There is no proof of God, and the chances of any kind of God existing are so incredibly thin and unlikely I feel I can actually say I'm an atheist - not an agnostic.

Because I understand quantum indeterminacy I know that my mobile phone could spontaneously become a group of butterflies and fly off making me go 'oooh' - its not impossible, its just so unlikely you'd have to wait billions and trillions of years for something so unlikely to happen by chance. The chance of God existing is on something like this level - except he doesnt become more likely the longer you wait.

If there was a proof, everyone would want to be Christian.

Answer 3

There is reasonable proof that Jesus existed. Some of the Gospels were written by people who were around when He was. However, the best proof is always that provided by a disinterested party. The historian Sutonius mentions the crucifiction of 'A man Christus, if He was indeed a man'. This is recorded in his histories, the writing of which was sponsored by the Roman establishment.

Answer 4

No there is no proof they can be laid down in front of you, if your like most you would refuse to accept what we believe is proof, and fair enough, however NO ONE can prove he does not exist, so I do believe I have seen enough to understand him, but your right about the bible, and other holy books, the truth is in them, but so much has been written by man to control others a lot of the truth is lost. I don't try to convert anybody, all i ask is that you keep an open mind. There are far to many things going on, to prove God's existence either way, so as that is a FACT, no one should close their minds to it.

Love & Peace

Answer 5

The evidence is all around you. Many people believe that all creation happened due to chance or evolution. Consider these facts about our marvelous earthly home---
The earth is placed at just the right distance from the sun, its source of energy in the form of light and heat.
It moves around the sun at just the right speed, and rotates on its axis every 24 hours, and has just the correct angle of tilt.
It has a protective, life-sustaining atmosphere with just the right mixture of gases.
It provides the water and soil needed to grow food.
It provides a variety of delicious and colorful fruits, vegetables and other foods.
We also are able to enjoy the beauty that exists in the sky such as rainbows, the stars and a moonlit night.
We enjoy the mountains, the streams and lakes, the varieties of beautiful fragrant flowers, plants and trees and so many other delightful living things.
Our creator also created taste buds so that we can enjoy a variety of delicious and satisfying food. While we do need food for energy and to live, we can at least enjoy the foods we eat. How boring would it be if all foods tasted the same or had no taste at all?
How about our ability to see in color all the beautiful flowers there are? Did you ever see a sunset or a rainbow? How appealing would they be if we could not see them in color? God could have created us without all those things, but he loves us and wants us to enjoy life.
He also gave us intelligence and even though mankind at times misuses it, many good things come from our ability to learn and retain what we learn. Think about all the modern conveniences that have been invented that help us to better enjoy life. God created a marvelous thing called the brain and it is truly amazing. Our brain is like a mini-computer that can store volumes of information and never become overloaded.
Then we have our heart, which continues to work by itself, without our having to think about it.
There are so many good things we have to thank God for and I do each day.

Answer 6

Thomas, Augustine, Descartes et al failed to find a proof. So how are you going to expect a bunch of retard moron rednecks in here to furnish you with one. It's a METAPHYSICAL concept. All you will get is subjective testimonies to their 'faith', various pathetic cut&paste texts or 'Oh we can't see the wind but we know its there' cr-ap. This does a great disservice to a long and honourable liberal intellectual tradition of Christianity. These guys probably flunked elementary school. Compared to them Forrest Gump was a towering genius! Sorry to be so abrupt- the truth hurts but at least its fair and honest!
PS OH NO! now we got the blind pot-shard maker 'theory'
Repeat after me 'you cannot argue from the particular to form a conclusion about the properties of the general(whole)'
If this is the way you make informed decisions about medical, legal or financial matters then god (I use the term advisedly!) help you and anyone you are advising!!

Answer 7

at this very moment there are 6 persons in medjugorje [Bosnia] former Yugoslavia are having apparitions of our lady, millions of people from all over the world are going there for a pilgrim, I have been there 6 times dont just take my word for it? read up about it you want the true th about the so called Chinese whispers its all there [ phenomena ] it is different from other places because there is a presence there good look god bless

Answer 8

http://www.stats.uwaterloo.ca/~cgsmall/ontology.html

J.P. - Kindly show the flaw in the logic?
Yes, the versions offered by Anselm, Leibnitz, Descartes, and Godel are flawed - but so far, I have yet to see any refutation of the form offered on this link, or the form offered by Anderson. Even the Great Richard Dawkins had no answer on this one. The only problem he could offer against Anselm's version was Kant's argument that existence is not a property - but this website fixes that issue.

As to whether or not the argument establishes 'which' God, I could care less. They are all names for the same being. I am perfectly content to assert that there is a being whose existence is not contingent, and I am perfectly willing to accept the uncertainties that go along with it.

Fortunately, modal logic establishes the consistency of positive properties and the fact that evil is not a positive property.

And even if the ontological argument leaves uncertainties, it is enough to justify Deism, Agnosticism, Buddhism, etc.

The proof does not assume that God is essentially Just or essentially Merciful, or that Justice and Mercy are eternal (rather than temporal). The Orthodox Church has always maintained that God is, by definition, unjust. But even then the axiom is logically valid. Also, by Godel's definition of positive properties, a positive property is any property that is essential. If neither justice nor mercy are essential qualities of any real being, then they are not positive properties. (i.e. positive in the sense of "pure attribution, outside the accidental structure of the world"). If evil is not a positive property, then neither justice nor mercy can exist outside the accidental structure of the world, and cannot be positive properties.

I'm deeply surprised that this is the error you found!

As for necessary existence as a positive property, I'll leave you with that. That has always been the most difficult point of the argument. The website treats necessary existence as a property of Essence to get around that problem - but I am suspicious. I'm giving you a thumbs up. (I don't know where your thumbs down came from - you make a good argument...)

And no, I cannot prove that necessary existence is a positive property!

The universe only meets this definition if it is not contingent on any other being. Deism, yes - pantheism, I don't think so. But you are right - even if valid, it doesn't prove the Christian God (which was the question.)

Answer 9

we have all the proof we need. for everyone is without excuse because they can look at all the nature out there and know that there had to be a God who created it. there are many people who never heard of a Bible or God and still new there was a God. yes we live by faith. however living by faith God reveals himself to us. he shows us he is real. and blesses us. God said if you dont believe then even if he showed you a miracle you still wont believe. you will come up with some excuse for it.

however the biggest proof i love is for all those who are not a believer who call christians names just because we believe in God. for the Bible says we will be called names for his names sake. as well as other things. like spit on or beat up or anything else that people do to christiand just because we say we are christians. prove the Bible even more by doing that. and not to mention you then get the nerve to talk about how bad this world is because of christians but yet you are not showing yourself to be any better by calling christians names or saying stuff about christians.

Answer 10

It's impossible to 'prove' this twaddle. The important question for the future of thinking mankind, is for how long will people 'believe' and in doing so inhibit the development of the human race.