ATHEISTS: would it be false to say that we can PROVE that there is no god?

Question

theists are constantly trying to make it look like we can't PROVE that there's no god and that therefore we have no argument. they try to give the impression that it's "50/50" (when in reality the odds are slighlty more on our side), and so that there's really no need to discuss anything. of course,,, if you ask them if there's any chance that there's NO god, they'll say "well,, no, THAT'S not possible". -- right,, so much for 50/50.

here's the thing though. while i could never say something like "there are no unicorns" with certainty, i CAN say that an all-loving, all-powerful god is not possible in a world where bad things happen and some souls even supposedly go to hell. if there is ANYTHING that is impossible, then it's THIS. the ONLY way that this sort of god could exist is if we're wrong about even the most fundamental of what what know (i.e. that a thing is what it is and is not what it is not, and that contradictions can't be true).

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christians are constantly asking us for proof and claiming that they have proof., so clearly they believe that there is such a thing as proof. in mathematics we have proofs, and people respect them even though these proofs are axiomatic and could in theory be wrong. well,,, by this definition of proof, we can prove that the christian god can't possibly exist.

so, my question is,, should we adopt this strategy? wouldn't it be more effective to fight fire with fire rather than say "well technically, ANYthing is possible, so i GUESS there's a chance that your god MIGHT exist" and have them exploit it? -- i mean,,, if the word proof has any meaning whatsoever, then we DO have proof that an all-loving, all-powerful god who allows people to go to hell can't possibly exist. so who else agrees that this strategy is a meme that should spread?

we CAN prove a negative. --- kirk cameron has said on his show that you can prove that there is gold in china but that you can't prove there's NOT any gold in china (unless you know "all" of china). -- now, this might be true for gold, but it's not true for everything. for example, i CAN say that there are no black holes in china, or that there are no planets in china. and i can even do this without knowing "all" of china. i can do this because i know that black holes and planets require too much for what china has to offer. similarly, the christian god is too "big" to be supported by the basic rules of what we know to be true. so we CAN prove negatives.

let me make something more clear. i am speaking only of disproving an all-loving, all-powerful god. i'm not trying to disprove any vague definition of "god" that can be mustered up. i don't think it's possible to disprove zeus for example.

(and as for the whole discourse on leprechauns, you missed my point, man. a LOT of you did actually.)

Answer 1

Yes. You can disprove aspects and definitions.

I have a disproof that covers every single possibility -- it MIGHT be made to yield to deism, but it would require some absurd conclusions.

Answer 2

It's a tricky situation... The quick answer would be to say Yes, it would be false to say that we can prove god doesn't exist. There seems to be no way to actually prove with any certainty that an entity fit to be called god doesn't exist, but here's where it gets tricky...

What properties must a being fit to be god have? Omniscience? Omnipotence? Omnibenevolence? The power to create something from nothing? All of the above? some of the above? The largest downfall to the god hypothesis is that the subject (god) still has no definition. Everyone who believes in a god believes in something different. That in itself is a blow to the hypothesis, but still, not proof of existence or non-existence.

While we can't prove one way or the other you are right, it isn't a 50-50 split. If we base our beliefs on probabilities (and in most cases we do) you would have to examine the probability of such a being existing. But again, we get back to the issue of a lack of definition which makes that task impossible.

So what do we do? We use the scientific method to figure out what we can know with high probability about the world and see if a god, in it's simplest definition is even necessary. With what we have been able to find out about our world, and our universe it is becoming increasingly clear that a god is not necessary for our existence... furthermore we are narrowing the definition of what a god would have to be in order to fit the scope of defining characteristics of a god and still be tenable within our reality.

What we are finding more and more is that god is unnecessary, and that there is a very low probability for his existence. Add the study of human psychology to this mix and we start to recognize patterns that show us why, who, and how we can even have a notion of god... this in turn reduces the probability even more.

So, it would be false to say we can prove that he doesn't exist... but it is not false to say that he doesn't exist. We know enough about our surroundings and existence to make that educated claim.

Answer 3

a thing is what it is, to us, but is something different in reality.

A car is a car, but a car is really a frame, tires, steering wheel, basically a whole lot of parts.

And what are those parts? We thought it was just matter, then we decided it was atoms, then protons, then quantums, and even though "quantum" means "the smallest" we'll always be able to split a quantum open and uncover something smaller. And if not, we can always create mathematical theories on how or why a quantum exists.

So you say there is no such thing as a contradiction? I say you're wrong my friend. You think you are you, but what are you? A person, a human, a quantum?

And what if a quantum can be defined in terms of a mathematical answer, that means everything is not really matter, but really a mathematical theory.

What then?

As for bad things happening in the world, you are quite wrong again. Think about the worst moment in your life, think about if you can learn from this experience or if it was utterly pointless and worthless? This is an assumption, but I am willing to bet that the most tragic thing that has ever happened to you is the single greatest experience you could have possibly ever had, because it shaped you as a human being.

Answer 4

So,what you're saying is that you can't disprove the existence of zeus,but you do think you have proof that God doesn't exist? You sound like one very confused person.And, just for the record,noone can prove God doesn't exist,any more than anyone can prove(scientifically) that God does exist. That doesn't mean He isn't real, just that we haven't been able to show absolute physical proof...yet. God is outside the natural order of things,and He can be found. It's just that science is more inclined to look for answers within the natural order of things. Fear of the unknown will always be a hindrance to science,because until we start looking for the seemingly unanswerable,we are simply stuck with studying only those questions that CAN be answered.

Answer 5

The problem is that they're lacking in education. Most of them can't seem to separate scientific theory from the laypersons meaning of the word theory, much less understand the more in depth meanings and proof of biology, chemistry, and physics. They can't even understand the the theories within them.

It, quite honestly, makes me worry about the education system because no one should ever leave high school thinking that science says we came from monkeys..

So the first solution is education. And this "No child is left behind" crap has got to stop.

its hard to believe but a lack of education is as real in Canada and the United States (both first world countries, though its worse in the US due to gvt policies of non-interference) as it is anywhere else in the world.

A first world country should never ever have such badly educated people.

If they actually understood the work, most of them would realize that its false. Instead, most of the population lives in ignorance and is perfectly happy that way.

Answer 6

By you saying "we" in your title, I'm assuming you're atheist. You mention that the world is so terrible and i'm assuming that if it's this way, you believe there can't be an "all powerful, all loving" God. You would think if God is all loving and powerful that this world wouldn't exists as evil as it does. God "permitted" satan to have free reign of the world, thus it's "evil". Christians will receive their peace in heaven, not here. God gave us free-will for us to make our own choices, unfortunately we don't choose so wisely because of the "evilness" on earth. They are sins that we like and indulge in. Your whole topic points back to "since the world is so bad, there can't be a God." You believe that is your proof. With what I said, about free reign, is our proof. It provides an answer as to the way things are, as described in the bible. Your proofs and my proofs differ, I can't dissprove you, nor you dissprove me. No matter what proof you may think you have, or anyone else for that matter, I still have faith and wouldn't believe otherwise. You're probably the same way. What does it hurt to believe? It's better to believe in case there is a God, than not believe and find out there is. Good luck in finding your answer.

Answer 7

If you proved that there were no GOD, I think you'll brake a few hearts, cause chaos(since people will stop believing that their actions actually have a consequence) I think that people will just live life the way they want to, without any type of moral restrictions. Why have morals and try to be good since GOD isn't around? I think that if you prove that God doesn't exist it'll satisfy the atheists and crush the religious people.
People choose to believe in God because it gives them a reason to restrain themselves from harmful behavior. I think having something to believe in makes life more worthwhile.
God makes us live our lives with a purpose.

Answer 8

I guess so...everyone has an opinion. If U want to apply this, U have the freedom of expression.If others disagree,then U need to move on because they won't allow U to have this freedom.Im sure many feel the same.I for one just believe its too much space out there for not to believe someone had a hand in this.

Answer 9

christianity is about believing and not seeing
you can ponder that stuff you wrote forever and youll never understand it. humans have been trying for thousands of years. religion is better than atheism (no offense there. its ur choice) in my opinion because while ur living, if u think theres a heaven, doesnt that make life more worthwhile, knowing that even if u mess up, all u have to do is believe in god unquestioningly and you have perfect salvation for eternity. i am a solid christian and always will be. i'll be in heaven someday, will u?

Answer 10

The monotheistic Gods of organized religions? They disprove themselves.

That a creator could not possibly exist? No