No new information in DNA?

Question

One assertion I keep coming across against evolution is that whilst variations do arise this is really just "shuffling the pack": no NEW information arises.

What puzzles me is exactly what is meant by "new information"?. Does not "new information" mean:

1. Different information
2. Before time T wasn't there and now is

DIFFERENCE
You and I are a bit like, but different to, our parents. We are a bit like, but different to all other human beings. Every human being has a unique sequence of DNA. Given that this AT LEAST defines "you" as opposed to "me" the information is different.

TIME T
Your DNA was fixed at conception. Before then the different information that defines "you" did not exist.

So what does
1. "no new information", in the context of refuting evolution, mean?
2. How is that law scientifically established?
3. How could it, in principle, be falsified? ("in principle"- if its true it wont be of course)

Answer 1

I'm not qualified to answer this question properly because I'm not a scientist or biologist, but I can tell you that whilst there is evidence to support MICRO-evolution, the jury is still out on MACRO-evolution. Could this be what "no new information" in the context of refuting evolution means? Just a thought. As a Christian, I believe that evolution and creation are compatible up to the point where man arrived on the scene. I do not accept that we evolved from one species into another species (Macro evolution). I believe that it took billions of years for our universe and this planet to come into being but that did not happen by accident. I believe that humans are unique.

I am an identical (zygotic) twin and I can agree with you that we have differences (especially in personality), so at conception our DNA must have been minutely different.

Please don't give me a hard time because I may not have understood or answered your question properly. It's a good question and I shall watch, with interest, to the replies.

Answer 2

My answers are :

1) "no new information" suggests that all possible genetic options are stored in our DNA. So any new person will contain only genetic material which is a combination of other peoples DNA. So for example they could not grow a third arm if the genetic option was not already in their parents DNA (e.g if their great-great grand father had three arms)

2) I don't think it is a law, but the evidence comes from traits which skip a generation. For example if a boy and his grandfather are both very tall and both the boys parents are short.

3) Finding new genetic mutations would add to the case that the principle was false. However people could always say that the DNA for those mutations was already there. Unless this could be disproved by showing that the new mutation was not in the parents DNA.

Answer 3

Natural selection of mutations within the population is the engine of evolution. There are several ways to define information, but my personal favorite is translatable mRNA as defined by both variations and quantities.

http://www-lmmb.ncifcrf.gov/~toms/

Your definitions of difference and time t are frame the problem nicely.
1. "No new information" means that base "kinds" were created by God and all living creatures contain less information than when they were created.
2. The "no new information" statement is an assertion based on the concept that there are no beneficial mutations.
3. It has been falsified by the demonstration of favorable mutations:
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/98/20/11388
and information gain in the genome:
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/15/8/931

In the latter, the genome had been sequenced the previous year, so the gene duplications were new.

Answer 4

You seriously need to get a grip on molecular biology before you even start to ask these questions. You show no knowledge whatsoever of what DNA is, what it does and how variation occurs. Get a science education from scientists, not from creationists.

In light of your angry (and slightly abusive email) - I'll expand my answer.

You quote 'whilst variations do arise this is really just "shuffling the pack": no NEW information arises.'

Shuffling the pack is not a bad analogy. The point you are missing is that the translation of the simple DNA code into structural and functional proteins is an extremely complex and subtle process with multiple feedback mechanisms and post-translation processes to fine-tune the final product. So, small changes in the simple 4-base code of DNA can have profound effects on form and function. To say that shuffling of the pack does not provide 'new information' is demonstrating a rather naive view of how genetics works.

A few more points you need to learn more about:

Differentiation is the process of how cells interact and change form and function by interacting with other cells. This happens through life.

Your DNA was not fixed at conception. Changes to the sequence can and do happen throuoghout life. Cancer cells are often caused by damage to the DNA. Bits of DNA can break and other bits can switch around - during life. If these mutations manage to get into the germline then the changes are passed to the next generation. If they just happens in your skin cells then you might die of skin cancer but any kids you father will be OK.

Genes (lengths of DNA that do a specific job) can be switched on or off. The DNA sequence might be there but you might not be making use of it. Both my parents have a gene for red hair somewhere in their DNA sequence - neither of them have red hair. I inherited a double dose and so I exhibit that charactersitic,

Molecular Genetics is a huge and fascinating subject and one that is well worth studying properly (i.e. at the 'nuts and bolts' level).

Answer 5

DNA is made up of four smaller elements known as G, A, T, C, (do you remember a film called GATTACA?). Everything we are, what we were and what we might be is contained in sequences made of these letters. Mutations occur eg Red hair when a sequence alters.

Humans have many more genes than we are currently using. Most genes that would give us gills or a furry pelt are currently switched off. In the future scientists may learn how to re-activate these.

And then the fun will really start.

Answer 6

Its not actually true, its just something creationists see on a website like answersingenesis (hence it 'must' be true :p) so copy and paste without ever using their brains. It only works for joe public, not the sort of claims that will last a second against anyone with an education in evolutionary biology.

Answer 7

This is complete garbage. Mutations happen all the time. They are the result of errors replicating the DNA on the molecular level. Scientists can even tell you how often they happen on average. Most of the mutations are not good. But occasionally one comes along that is.

Answer 8

If you really want to know more go to a science college .They will remove the religious hurdles you have put up and explain in terms you will understand . The more you EDUCATE yourself the less need you`ll have to believe in the super natural and imaginary gods .
Good Luck Learning.

Answer 9

Science isn't my thing. I prefered history lmao.