For all atheists...can you explain??

Question

I am Christian, and if I help "convert" someone, I believe they are saved from eternal torture. Pretty good cause.

What does an atheist gain by "converting" a Christian to an atheist? Power? A sense of control?

Before I knew Jesus I was in horrible bondage...with drugs, porn, money, alcohol, self centeredness, isolation, justification, you name it. Christians stood by me....Jesus saved me from all that.

What is to gain by "converting" me? I am in no bondage by fellowshipping with Christians...I am in no bondage or obligation by reading my Bible, being a giving person or loving others. I am the most joyous I have ever been.

Would you rather see me back to my old ways? Or lost?

I don’t get it. Just a question a few moments ago got me wondering.

I'd appreciate your thoughts. Please don’t answer in defense or anger. Be honest.

Sort of like the anti-Pascal wager. "even if were wrong, lets make sure you go to hell also" I really don’t see the benefit.

Thanks
Buck Wheat

http://ca.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Avw2vf973ur0GtFkxFPcGBflPhV.?qid=20070202223951AAxB0oe

This is the Q that bothered me.

Blessings

1st answerer...why cant I say things like "I know Jesus" ??

I know Him through the word and the spirit. I never claim to have met Him physically.

BUT WHAT IF YOU ARE WRONG AND I BURN IN HELL??? WHAT IS GAINED??

I know not all atheists are addicts. I was an atheist 28 years, I am not an idiot.

so eldad...then youre saying your comfort is more important than someone else off drugs and being saved from hell? Thats pretty self centered, no?

Eldad9..can your last sentence basically be re-phrased to "I like the sense of power I get when I control people like puppets??"

Answer 1

explain what? Our rational logic?

-Look, if you think that religion was what you need to stop doing "bad" things, then great. But don't sit there and say ridiculous things like "I know Jesus", it is a TOTAL lie.

-You should THANK us for showing you REALITY and revealing to you that your faith is an ILLUSION.
-You say "I know him through "the word"?????
AS TO YOUR UPDATE: Do you really think you have ANY IDEA what his words were? The last time I checked, the world has NOTHING that was written by Jesus, and NONE of the Bible was written by Jesus. If I wrote a book about Napoleon and you read it, would you then sit there and say, "I know Napoleon"? OF COURSE NOT.

Answer 2

Wow you think atheists like control... have you ever looked at the church and religion, those are the two most controlling institutions in the world my friend. Do this, don't do that, or you go to hell. Hmm I 'd say that is a little worse than atheists trying to free your mind from the shackles that is religion. You were never atheist you were agnostic. I believe you have been brainwashed and are now unable to be helped I'm sorry that you have fallen into the pit that is religion. ANd you wanted to know about how pascals wager is bad for you. If there is no god you have wasted your entire life worshiping, praying, giving money, and proclaiming your obedience to something that was never there in the first place. While I the atheist have focused on the things that have made me happy and succesful and I will be remembered because of those things I did while you will be forgotten along with the rest of your kind.

Answer 3

Some people are better off trading in one delusion for another. It's easier to understand the dogma of religion, than it is to acquire the sophistication of being an atheist. It sounds like to me that you had no time to spare, and you were desperate. Your better off believing in Christianity than doing what you were doing. However, you still haven't reached true peace of mind. You just think you have.
Your religion as been set up to make you think that you have gained something. But anything you get from religion, you could get at a cheaper cost by acknowledging reality. What your really after is peace of mind. At first it's painful to learn not to believe in God, but it pays big dividends later to learn to live a happy life without that belief.
Think of everything you might to go through to be a Christian. You have to go to church, wrestle with the notions that you have sinned ( when in fact you have really done nothing wrong), pay the religion to build it's churches and spread the word ( which really is a form of taxation), go through the pain of arguing against people like me that have logic and evidence on their side.
I could write an entire book on this. Be a good human, don't be a good Christian. If your god is all he's cracked up to be, he won't mind. If your being a Christian out of fear, your being much more selfish than alot of non Christians.

Answer 4

When a christian converts someone to their faith, they may feel satisfied, but its because...ultimately...they did what they were told, thereby earning god's "favor".

When an atheist shows someone a different path (one based on logic, not fear...a path grounded in fact, not faith), they may feel a sense of satisfaction or pride that someone opened their eyes, but thats the end of it.

I don't know you personally, but in my experience, a recovering addict who has "found Jesus" typically trades in one addiction for another. Science has shown that when a person prays (and I mean those with deeply rooted faith), their body releases the same endorphines that sex, and heroine do. These same people who claim "god saved me from my addiction" pursue their new found faith with the same fervor that they would pursue their next line/drink/bump/boot. Maybe that's just a coincidence, but it is something to think about.

I won't try to say that you getting clean is a bad thing, but I will say that I disagree with how you've done it. I am a recovering addict, and frankly, the only thing that got me off of that $hit was this: I took responsibility for my CHOICE to become addicted in the first place. Addiction isn't a disease, its a choice. There is no "addiction" gene, or virus/bacteria. If you found a spiritual path, great...more power to you. Just be strong enough to take the credit for the inner strength you displayed in cleaning yourself up.

Answer 5

First of all... your pretty good cause, "eternal torture," is nonsense.

What I gain from showing you how foolish your current thinking is, is nothing by comparison to what you can gain by it. The ability to escape from a life of hypocrisies is a beginning and a much better cause than the "eternal torture" you seem to believe is so threatening and real.

Because Christians were at your side and offering you help when you needed it, you ought to say thanks to the Christians but reserve the right to remain honest and clear in your ability to think logically.... nobody has the right to take that away from you.

Ask yourself if Christians were truly the only people who were willing to help you... and were they the only ones who could have helped you? Certainly, you can't be thinking that only people who are helped by Christians are able to turn their lives around from bad to good. Couldn't Jews have been just as helpful? Couldn't a non-bias public service have done the trick? ...and are you so shallow as to think that others aren't as pleased and just as thankful to have been successfully helped by non-Christian groups as you are by Christians.

Nobody wants you back in the drug scene. There you were useless to yourself and to others... a mess and a mess to have around. But, not everyone wants you standing in the camp of Christianity either, blinded by something just as mind numbing as your former drug habit. Truth - the real truth about mankind and the universe he occupies - is not found in the Bible. There you will only find stories and some of which are of such a very ridiculous nature that even a child, (or a caveman,) could immediately see that they are as false as a fairytale - you probably can, too, can't you?

And, to return to your primary question of what is there for me to gain by seeing you think beyond the dogma of faith.... perhaps it amounts to something as simple as having a better neighbor or perhaps it's farther reaching and it ultimately contributes to a better world... either way, it would help to make you 'a better you' and that's really good cause, isn't it?

Do yourself, (and me,) a favor and get off the "drugs of God and Jesus," ....that's a trip as unreal and as false as all those highs you were hooked on before. It's time to get more than just clean... it's time to wise-up.

[][][] r u randy? [][][]
.

Answer 6

I'm not interested in converting most Christians. Whatever works for them is fine with me.

There are some Christians, though, who use their religion as an excuse to hurt people.

For instance, without the Bible, I don't think there wouldn't be much objection to homosexuality in the U.S. From my perspective, it looks like gay and lesbian Americans are being subjected to a lot of misery and persecution -- from marriage bans to hate crimes -- for absolutely no reason.

I would love to convert those Christians who demand that laws be made based on their religion, or who think their religion justifies violence. Of course, those are the ones who are least likely to get themselves converted...

Answer 7

I can't speak for every atheist here, but I have no desire to convert you or anyone else. If at the end of the day, nothing I say makes anyone on this forum change their mind, I don't care. I'm just here for the discussion -- I don't care who agrees with me.

"I am the most joyous I have ever been."

So am I, and I'm not a Christian.

Answer 8

Shame on you for this question, you were lost because you let yourself get that way. Dont you for a minute blame all your problems on NOT being a christian. I am very happy for you that you have found faith, as it is just that. I am happy for you that are happy, and your life is at peace, and if it took christianity for you to get there, than great. Im believe in our God, I believe Jesus was a great man and did great things and of course we should all look up to that kind of example, but my grandfather is a great man, and my mother a great woman, and they both did great things for many people and set a great example for me, I believe they may be all in the "spirit world, heaven, paradise, whatever YOU believe it to be, but I dont see everyone praying to my grandfather or my mother. Point is, dont get arrogant and try to put down people for not believing all the "wow" about Christ. Many and most atheist lead just as spiritual lives as you. They teach their children great moral standing and to keep open minds instead of forcing them into believing what you believe, and tell them if they dont their going to hell. Yeah good job, make your babies live in fear. Good move. IF GOD DIDNT WANT ME TO BE HERE, I WOULDNT BE!!!!!

Answer 9

I really don't want to convert anyone. I want to carefully explain my beliefs so people don't make-up lies about me. Going to Hell would not change my beliefs. It's like the African-Americans during the Civil Rights. If they did not think a law was just they'd break it. They would sit in white-only facilities, protest or defy authority not because they didn't care about the punishment but because they believed the laws were unjust.

Answer 10

They have nothing to gain? They fear Christians because so many of us (but not me) try to impose our morals on them. Truly it would be no different if we had a Muslim president that tried to impose his/her Islamic values on us. Politics is no place for Christians to do God's work. Hospitals, prisons, the streets where the homeless are... Trying to make non-believers act like Christians is not one of Jesus' commandments to his followers. In fact, Jesus criticized such actions committed by the Sadducees and the Pharisees.