..a serious question on religion/faith..?

Question

How do people who follow a faith resolve with a set of beliefs that defy rational thought?

If you read the Bible, or the Koran, or any other religious texts, the ideas, concepts and stories are absolutely ridiculous, they defy logic, yet millions of people follow them with open arms.

Now whilst I realise the less intellectually gifted can be "forgiven", but lots of intelligent people follow a religion. That said the intellectual elite of this world are almost resoundingly atheist, but still there are plenty who "believe"..

Do they compartmentalise faith and logic in separate boxes?

(and please no quotes from the bible, or comments about how I am the one who is deluded...yawn..)

HASEY JO: It's not a case of my me having "made my mind up". This is not a debate about the existence of god, it's about compartmentalisation of logic and faith..

JESSY: Yes, you have a point, religious books can be read literally..and are open to interpretation, which gives rise to the differences in opinion we see in the fractured nature of religious groups.

The problem is, religious people pick and choose which bits are to be taken literally and which are not.

When these books were written they were not intended to be interpreted, they were the word of "God",

it's only in recent times people, like you, have started throwing in this "well they are not meant to be taken literally" argument, and why?? because the ideas, concepts and premises that these books lay out DEFY LOGIC, but at the time they were written it was plausible to believe what these people espoused.

"CHRIS" THE LESBIAN: Your assessment of my question is way off. Im not trying to question faith, what Im questioning is why people ignore their senses and override their own comprehension to believe religious texts that are OBVIOUSLY and SCIENTIFICALLY false.

Even religious leaders are backtracking and having to use the "dont take it literally" argument because what these books claim are either disproved scientifically or just plain ridiculous.

What Im asking is how/why people of faith ignore that 1+1=2..

BRYAN: The birth of the universe does not defy logic, it's just that science does not have the answer and maybe never will, our technical shortcomings cannot be used as justification in fairy stories..simply saying "well we dont know why that happens, so it must be God" is a really really weak and defeatist.

MARK G : If you've read the Bible then you know what im talking about, and my avatar and name have nothing to with the debate, nor does my skin colour, height, or weight..

SISTER STEPH: I dont put down people who dont believe what I belive, I've asked a question.

This is the problem with people like you, I've not suggested being an atheist makes me a good person, this type of behaviour is generally only ever found in religious people.

And besides, what i (and others like me) are actually saying is..Im not putting you down, im putting your beliefs down, not because they are different to mine, but, because they are ridiculous and outdated.

SISTER STEPH: Also...

"You follow a doctrine every day of your life, you follow the laws of your country. Is that doctrine stupid?"

If your equating me not speeding on the motorway because statistics show speeding increases chances of an accident, to...believe in an invisible being and pray once a week (or more) to that invisible being because if you dont you will burn in hell for eternity after your already dead...if your saying these are equally open to critical analysis, then you have just proved my case for me..thanks.

SISTER STEPH: After reading your last paragraph I find myself in a fit of hysterics.. The basis for science is Christianity? are you for real???

And please..PLEASE dont talk to me about Christian scientist because 99% of scientist are Atheist.

And finally, I dont worship Atheist or anyone else for that matter, I dont need to worship anyone else because I am responsible for my life, I lead my self like all adults should.

***

LACI R: Whilst I dont entirely agree with everything you say but I totally know what you mean about kisses from you kids and feeling an energy, but Im not sure we can ascribe these feelings to a higher being or unifying force. I once stood on the top of a mountain in the Lake District in the UK, it was an amazing experience, and if I were a religious person, I would say it was a religious experience, but im not religious so I just say it was an amazing, almost emotional experience that I felt a better person for having. After experiences like that, and as you say, kisses from your child, why on Earth do we need "God"...

SEN B: Actually I do have the right to concern myself with what others believe, for instance, fundamentalist Muslims who believe the word of Koran in that it is acceptable to kill infidels.

All beliefs should be open to scrutiny, and if you had used your massive intellect to answer the question I had asked rather than getting on your soap box in some defensive almost typical Muslim rant then maybe we could scrutinise your beliefs? Or would you and your fellow thinkers be moved to protest about your rights to think/say/do as you please.. I would say so.

"togashiyo..." : "The problem with the intellectual elite is their intolerance"

Are you SERIOUS?? And as for your next line """The problem with the intellectual elite is they think they are smarter than everyone else""", are you a comedy writer, cus you fugging should be with lines like that!!

In my experience, and that which the media shows us every day, the intolerant ones are predominantly religious. I've never met more intolerant people than Christians and those who would go to such lengths as Muslims to maintain their point of view, i.e. to murder, torture etc.

What Atheists generally abhor is mindless belief and all the crap that goes with it, religion is the basis for more division and intolerance than any other medium. So please, dont come to me talking about intolerant atheist/intellectual elite, because those in glass houses should not throw stones ;-)

HALF WAY THERE: "MAN ON HIS OWN IS A SORRY CASE"

Speak for yourself love, man without religion would be like a world without solicitors or estate agents....a far better place.. ;-)

AUBREY H: "..us humans aren't capable of loving unconditionally,"

Speak for yourself, I think there's lots of parents, wives, husbands and children out there who would disagree with you.

"SETFREEJN..."

So what your saying is God is pretending he doesnt exist so that people will believe in him..

That if he wanted to, he could pop up and say "woohoo fooled ya, im here really", and in fact all these people who kill, murder, torture and abuse in HIS name are allowed to continue because he would rather people doubted HIS existence than unify mankind and all the religions of the world..

Hmm interesting, thanks for that.

If you believe in God, and he showed himself to the world, would your faith be diminished or enhanced? Hmm that question sounds like a new post...

Destiny: Were are all these people who are "smarter than me", I've not met a single religious person who's beliefs I couldnt tear to shreds in 30 seconds flat.

And as for "Adam and Eve", go read up on Darwin you sheep.

THE BEST:

If you think doctors dont know why people die, or why they cant help them, or that doctors dont know how babies are conceived then you obviously havent had much schooling..

Your not living up to your name mate.

Answer 1

Good question. I'm not atheist, I'm more of an eclectic pagan. I don't believe in the bible for the same reasons you gave above. And because it's hypocritical.

I think some people just don't know how to think for themselves. They don't want to listen to others opinions, they'd rather live life in blind faith. These people can't make their own decisions, they let others make their choices for them.

I'm not saying that all religious followers are like that. I'm sure many of them actually and truly believe with their hearts about some things. But, when they can't explain it and start forcing their opinions on others and begin acting out in hate (for example, the religious freak Fred Phelps who is the most hateful, ignorant person on earth), they just show how completely stupid they are.

I believe there's something guiding us. But not some vengeful, jealous god who wants us to worship ONLY him. I believe more in a "life force." Something that flows through all of us, animals and nature included. It's an energy. I think many people are just to far gone into blind faith to feel it. I find comfort in the purr of my cat. I find "god" in kisses from my nephew. I see heaven when I look into my husband's eyes.

It's a little off topic, but these kinds of questions, get me going. I completely agree with you. Oh, and I can't even listen to the people who just blow off science like it's not real. They can PROVE science. Global warming?! It's real and it's deadly. Evolution? Hey, look, fossil. Why isn't that proof enough?

Hope this helps a little. Thanks for the good question.

Answer 2

The problem with the intellectual elite is their intolerance. They think of themselves as smarter than everyone else, and at the same, they are content in the notion that what they see is all there is. They then take this notion and apply it to believers as being less intelligent than them, when it's not necessarily true. Why do you think that so many leaders of business and industry are believers? Are they less intelligent? I tell you, I look at the intellectual elite...or elitist as the case may be...and say that they may have a pretty decent handle on the matierial world, but there is more to the universe that what can be perceived and measured through your 5 senses, and some of it defies logic. Eventually, they will come into contact with it, and they will have to make a choice: stay in their world, or open their mind.

Answer 3

Give some examples of "absolutely ridiculous, logic defying concepts". And when you look out to the universe and see we are a ball dangling in a vast space with no end that does not defy logic. Anything is possible in this world, anything. I am a perfectly logical person but that does not stop me having faith. You should not concern yourself with why i or others believe if it means nothing to you, why do our opinions count? There are plenty of smarter people that you or i could ever claim to be who holey believe in the scriptures so are you to be "forgiven" for being "less intellectually gifted" and not following them with open arms? You say potatoes I say potatoes.......

P.S. I am a muslim.

I did not state that my faith or any other was not open to scrutenty did i? No. That is your assumption.You do not understand the Quran if you think taking a quote out of context mean we think it is acceptable to go around killing people simply for the fact they are infidels. I have never killed an "infindel" and follow my faith with peace and respect for others be they muslims, hindus, christians or athiests. Dont put words into my mouth. Neither did i state i had a "massive intellect" another assumption on your part. I have an IQ of 134 I am not the most "intellectual" person in the world and never claimed to be but i am far from dumb and answered the question you asked. If you dont like my answer that is something else but dont tell me i did not answer it, I did. In which part of my answer did i "do the ususal defending muslims rant" i never mentioned muslim till the end of my answer and all i did was state i was a muslim. Where was the "soap box rant" you claimed i made? If you wanted a different answer maybe you should have asked a different question. I suggest you are the one with skills lacking in the reading department as you clearly did not read my answer or understand it if you did considering the edited response you gave to it was 100 miles of base.

Answer 4

You are deluded if you think atheists are so loving. They are just as hateful as you claim christians/other religions are. Look at your own question. You put down those who believe in religious doctrine because it's not the same doctrine you believe in. You call them less intelligent then your precious atheists. Think of this, most of the scientific discoveries by our wonderful atheists were first started by Christian scientists back in the day. Where would we be if Newton, Gallilao, or any other scientist up to Einstein hadn't been around? Your athiest scientists wouldn't have the discoveries they have today. Pretty smart for the less intelligent.

Following a doctrine doesn't make one "stupid", as you've implied. IT's a set of rules, like laws. You follow a doctrine every day of your life, you follow the laws of your country. Is that doctrine stupid?

Every advancement that your science has made, was helped along by discoveries from the past, from Christians. There are still Christian scientists, but you probably dismiss them because you only worship atheists. You are doing the same thing you accuse religion of doing, but because you're an athiest, you think it's ok. You are a hypocrite.

Answer 5

I respect your opinion as I do everyone elses. I am a Christian and have been all of my life. What I have realized through talking with everyone of every faith, is that each person has thier own individual beliefs. For example, I have heard numerous "Jesus jokes" that would make the Catholic Chuches condemn these people to hell. When these people are asked why they would say such joke, they usually respond with "God has a sense of humor." I feel that religion is what the individual belives in to make their life more comfortable. It is the glue that helps hold society together. It gives people a set of morals which happen to correspond with todays laws and ethics. While a majortity of these morals are bent and broken, it still helps keep people in line.

Answer 6

That's why it's called 'faith'. Believing even if the world's logic tells you not to.

To tell you the truth, a lot of the so-called "fairytales" in the Bible (e.g. Noah's Ark, etc.) have been proven true, yet defied logic up until a few hundred years ago or less. And to tell you the truth, everything in Scriptures seems logical to me. Maybe it's my predisposition, choosing to believe that there is a Higher Being out there Who's watching over me and delighting in my every move. I dunno. All I know is I believe.

P.S. I don't think you're deluded. Maybe you might wanna try reading a few Bible verses with an open mind? It's comforting to know that Someone up there loves you unconditionally. Defies logic? Yes, it does, because us humans aren't capable of loving unconditionally, but when it comes to God... Man, we will never be able to understand everything.

Answer 7

ok. it may be quite dificult to answer your question without a biblical quote, but I will try.

it is called grace. See those that choose to believe, are given grace, they also are given a desire to change the way they live. this is not easy. some who are alcoholics, sex addicts have been that way for more years than they have not. and as they attempt to make these changes if they suffer a bit (and this would be a good place to put a verse that shows that) then grace is poured out on them, and they are strengthened. See there is evidence that God exists, but a lack of proof. This is Gods design, that he would prove his existance to those who believe, by giving them the stregnth to change something they have been unable to do themselves for most of their lives. Proving his existance to each individual, while keeping it hidden from those who demand proof before they can believe.

hope this helps.

Answer 8

No answer given by a person with faith is going to satisfy you. What I will say, as a person with Christian faith is this...even if Christianity were another false religion I am still thankful for it. I know that terrible things done in the past in the name of religion but they are far outweighed by the good. Freedom of religion, speech, morals, values, value life, belief in after life, the experience of prayer and comfort of Holy Spirit. When I see countries that do not believe in the Christian God and the conditions they live in I feel for them. I also believe as our nation continues to decline morally we will too suffer the loss of the blessings of God.
I don't believe or have faith in man to think that without belief in a God, absolute truths and moral laws the world would be a better place. Man on his own is a sorry case.

Answer 9

can you know how people die why doctors cant help them or how the baby is created from nothing its not a logic this life and this world is complex to understand it and you wont understand everything read koran deeply you will find the miracle you havent to put it under logical rules cause it is alot of things cant be explained so you cant talk about logic

Answer 10

people are sheep and are afraid to think on thier own . the bible is a collection of fairy tales that was designed to guide people to a better way of living , it has been rewritten and rewritten over the course of history to suit the sect that wants to control the sheep . many parts of the writings have been deleted becuase the powers that were didnt want the sheep to know some things . All of these text were written by man not God . They can be a good guide on how to act and treat others but that is all . It is easier to follow the crowd than it is to do your own thinking . I could go on for hours lol.