Atheists, Agnostics and those questioning organized religion?

Question

I have been researching athesism and am at the point of considering myself an atheist. I am wondering how many of you who dont believe or dont conform to organised religion believe in Evolution or Intelligent Design?

I find that Evolution is one scientific group and ID is another scientific group and the two dont play well with each other. I find more scientific fact in evolution than a flying spaghetti monster.

I am looking for a discussion from both sides.

Feel free to use your edit function to retort to a post. I miss the discussion that was available to Yahoo news. Please use the edit function to add to your original post if needed.

I am a firm believer in Evolution. I have just been seeing all this talk about the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Pastafarians, and now the the Flying Margarita Monster. Which none of it can be proven. Its a psuedoscience.

Answer 1

Intelligent Design isn't even an option. It's completely absurd.

Evolution occurs. It's testable, it's proven, it's predictive. It's there.

I miss the News boards too. There was on I frequented daily and I very much wish I could again. It's one of the reasons I've migrated to Answers... it's a good place to "discuss" just... with less discussion!

Answer 2

If there is some other magical other existence out there, a heaven or a god or spirit, there is no reason why evolution has to be written off. Personally i think most religions take away from responsibility, owning up to problems and conflicts as an individual. Species, planets and people are constantly evolving from century to century. It is not hard to fathom such a theory, and with such a tiny missing link to. After all look at athletes from even only the 1930's compared to now. People evolve with the times. I also agree with Neil S, that I.D is not a scientific group.

Even though i think i feel like an atheist most of the time...................i really do wonder.....and hope

Answer 3

The authors of the following are not a part of Christendom's or other man-made religions, yet believe in Creation --as the Bible Itself describes it-- not what Creationists or Fundamentals believe. http://watchtower.org/library/pr/article_04.htm

The following present the facts, & discuss the possibility of what each says. Although I'm not sure exactly what 'ID' teaches... The info I'm recommending to you does Not support the idea of 24-hr creative days, yet upholds Creation, for instance. One shows how part of the current Big Bang theory 'works, while part of it does not. These articles focus on what the Bible actually says & indicates, in a clear manner. Enjoy (; !!

A Nuclear Scientist Tells, "Why I [Now] Believe the Bible"
http://watchtower.org/e/20040122a/article_01.htm

The Awesome Universe---Where Did It Come From? :
> The Big Bang--What It Does & Doesn't Explain
- So Mysterious, yet So Beautiful
- 'Something is Missing'--(What?)
http://watchtower.org/e/19960122/article_01.htm

The Universe -- Did It Come About by Chance? :
- Our Awesome Universe--A Product of Chance?
- Did the Elements Come About by Chance?
- The Earth--Was it "Founded" by Chance?
http://watchtower.org/e/20001008/article_01.htm

"Science and [the Bible are] no longer seen as incompatible."
(The Daily Telegraph, London, May 26, 1999)

Reconciling Science and Religion
- An Enduring Quest
- - Accept the Limits - - Let the known facts speak
> - The Creative Days--24 Hours Each?
- - Faith, not credulity
- - Respect science; acknowledge belief
- - Has Science Taken the Moral High Ground?
http://watchtower.org/e/20020608/article_01.htm

Animal Creation Magnifies Jehovah
- They Need No Human Help
- Winged Creatures Magnify Jehovah
- God Gives the Horse Mightiness
- Consider the Falcon and the Eagle
- Jehovah Disciplines Job
- Behemoth Glorifies God
- Leviathan Brings God Praise
- Job Makes a Retraction
http://watchtower.org/e/20060115a/article_01.htm

Life A Product of Design :
- Copying Life's Marvelous Designs
- Learning From Designs in Nature
- The Great Designer Revealed http://watchtower.org/e/20000122/article_01.htm

Unraveling the Mystery of Your Genes
- Genes, DNA, and You
- Peering Into the Microscope
- What Is Behing the Mystery of Life?
- How DNA Replicates
- How Proteins Are Made
http://watchtower.org/e/19990908a/article_01.htm

Humans---Just Higher Animals? :
- Who Are Humans?
- In the Image of God or Beast?
- Looking for Answers
http://watchtower.org/e/19980622/article_01.htm

Life’s Amazing Senses--Do You Appreciate Them? :
- How Many Senses Do We Really Have?
- Amazing Senses in the Animal World
- Special Gifts That Make Us Unique
http://watchtower.org/e/20030308/article_01.htm

Cooperation---Vital To Life :
- The Role of Cooperation in Nature
- Why Cooperation Is Vital
- When Global Harmony Will Prevail http://watchtower.org/e/20050908/article_01.htm

Special edition of journal explores issue of creation, front to back:
"Is There A Creator?"
http://www.jw-media.org/newsroom/index.htm?content=/region/global/english/releases/educational/060901.htm
(Contains quotes from 6 professional scientists,
+ much more.)

Is There A Creator Who Cares About You?
http://watchtower.org/publications/publications_available.htm
(A Very scientific book.)

Answer 4

Here is my list. There is more, I just tried to stick with the easy to understand ones.

* Fossils - the order can be determined by stratification alone (no radiological dating) it is unarguable and life started simple and got more complex. Here is a simple chart to show what I mean: http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/fossils/succession.html
* Anatomical similarities between species.
* Chemical similarities between species.
* Mitochondrial DNA regressive studies. - This comes only from your mother and the only changes to it are through mutations. These mutations occur at a known rate, and converge world wide 150,000 years ago give or take. If Eve (6000 years ago) was the only female, it would be almost identical world wide. It is not. The flood gives a second bottleneck that matches the facts even less well.
* Geographic distribution of related species. Meaning related species are usually near each other.
* Wisdom Teeth - there isn't room on your jaw for them anymore.
* Your little toe - totally useless. Nice intellegent design here.
* Your appendix - totally useless now but it does digest cellulose in other species.
* Your inner eyelids - They don't even work now, but they do for lots of other animals like house cats. Bet you didn't even know you had 'em.
* Vestigial DNA - meaning chromosomes that we have but don't use, but that used in other species. We have several that other primates use but are totally useless to us.
* The fact that we share so much DNA among species
* There are no wild cows. They evolved through artificial selection and are totally man made.
* Different breeds of dogs, cats, livestock.
* Viruses and bacteria evolve quickly and you can actually see it. This is why you need a new flu shot every year.
* Your tail bone. It is even not that uncommon to be born with a tail.
* Goosebumps - this would be useful if we had fur because it fluffs it and make more insulation. For us it is worthless.
* The hair standing up on your neck when you are frightened. Animals use this to make themselves look bigger. Doesn't work when you walk upright and don't have fur.
* The fact that humans have gotten measurably and heritablely taller since the 1600s
* The fact that humans jaw have gotten measurably and heritablely smaller since the 1600s
* The fact that humans little toes have gotten measurably and heritablely smaller since the 1600s
* Human lower back problems. Your back is intelligently designed to have support from your shoulders.

Answer 5

Why do you think the verses in Genesis have to be taken literally? They don't.

Why couldn't God have used Evolution to create everything? He could have.

Did you know the Big Bang Theory was not readily accepted at first? Scientists thought it sounded too much like Christianity. Eistien even spent a big aprt of his carrer trying to refute it...later admitting it was a big mistake.

Plenty of Christians believe in Evolution. Many Churches have accepted it (Catholic, ECUSA, Lutheran, etc.)

If that is the only thing causing you to reject your faith, then you need to look harder.

You should read all of C.S. Lewis's books. He was an atheist who became a Christian.

Answer 6

Intelligent design is not science. They have yet to publish ONE peer-reviewed paper supporting their 'theory'. They claim to be too busy with their PR to do any real research. Really, that's what they said on their website.

The fact is, they don't understand how science works. You have an idea. You set out to test that idea. You publish a paper on your results. Other people test your results. Eventually, your idea become accepted as the predominent theory, replacing or updating the current theory. And 20 years after that, if it's basic enough, it appears in colleges and high schools. You don't go straight from idea to high school. You need the testing first, the results, the verification. They want to go straight from idea to schools. It can't be done.

Answer 7

I'd have to say I'm on the ID side of that fence. I don't agree with and can't reconcile myself to the "recognized" religions of the world, as I have a problem with the whole concept of omnicience and with any omnipotent being caring about anything in the slightest. However, there are far too many gaps in the evolutionary theory to satisfy me either, and what appear to be far too many complexities that work too well together to be explained by mere chance, regardless of what comes out on the theoreticians' blackboards.

I supposed in the end I have to fall back on Heinlein (one of the best speakers on religion in history, IMHO) when he said "There is no conclusive evidence of life after death. But there is no evidence of any sort against it. Soon enough you'll KNOW. So why fret about it?"

Answer 8

The fact that you call Intelligent Design supporters a scientific group is really offensive to the sciences.

Answer 9

What does it matter? No one knows for sure. I believe the bible was written by a bunch of well-meaning men trying to provide some sort of moral direction in less-than civilized times. The existence of dinosaur fossils proves it. But I also believe that everything is too perfectly fit and matched to be just brainless, design-less evolution.

Answer 10

Intelligent design is a way for religious people to teach Creationism in schools by just calling it a different name. We had a panel discussion of this at my college and most of the science teachers said they would quit before they would teach intelligent design.