Can soft chinese martial arts be practiced with hard M.A ?

Question

Some principles in chinese martial arts require that you not be tense but relax and soft....e.g. Taichi, wingchun...

My question is can you practice those martial arts with a hard martial art like e.g. karate or muay thai ... will they conflict with each other?

please only answer if you know.

cus they focus on the one principle is that the harder you try the worst it gets ...you MUST relax your muscles and body first...then doesn't it contradicts with the principle in hard martial arts lets say " muay thai" ohhh better example would be "nanquan" in wushu for example..where you're supposed to be rock solid to produce that explosive force...
so doesn't the 2 principles just cancels out each other instead of supplementing each other ? i can't seem to grasp this concept... it's not making sense in my mind.


blutowsky: pls elaborate your explaination bit more...

Answer 1

Haha, wow, this is really about symantics and translations isn't it. We all know the words, Internal, External, Hard and Soft. here's another spin on it for you. All martial arts that deal "knowingly" or "concionsly" with 'chi' or 'energy' are classified as Internal. All those that don't i.e. boxing are thought of as External. Now, Hard and Soft. Listen carefully here as I'm about to tell you some secrets of the soft internal Kung Fu. Hard will tense when they strike. This makes for a powerful strike but by tensing their arm they lock the chi in their muscles so it stays there. Imagine the arm like a hammer. If it hits a brick wall it will leave a circular indent in it, won't it. Praying Mantis, Shaolin Kung Fu can be though to be Internal Hard.
Now, Soft. The only tension with soft is in the natural tension of the muscles that happens when they move. If you lift your arm up, muscles must contract and release = natural muscle contraction, no Force/No Excerted Tension. What this allows you to do is to send the chi through the arm and instead of being locked in the muscles it flows out of you and into your opponent.
Imagine a whip. Relaxed until it hits something. Or a hose. If you open the nossle just right you will have a sharp spray that can cut into things. Hard, would be like turning the nozzle all the way and stopping the water from flowing out. Locking it in the 'arm'.
Tai Chi Chuan, Baguazhang, Hsing-I or Wu Chi Chuan, when practiced properly are all Internal Soft styles.
Now that you know all this you can see that yes, you can use these principles with ANY move if executed with the principles in mind. So I can use the moves of Karate and Muay Thai as a soft internal. I can make a Karate punch soft internal or a muay thai kick as well. ANYTHING. Locks, holds, throws, Jumps, strikes. The problem will come though when you try and mix the philosophy and principles of the two. Moves and principles are two things that can be combined. Unrelated or contradicting principles can not.
So the principles can be practiced with just about all systems.

What you asked is a pretty big question. I hope I haven't confused you even more. We all have our own understanding of chinese words translated into english so no matter what, you will come up against people using the same words but with different meanings. It comes down to the teacher and the art. You just have to find one that you can accept and work with it.

Answer 2

Some good answers above.
I practice Goju-Ryu karate, which by definition is a mix of hard and soft techniques. We practice Tai-Chi forms yet on other occasions practice board and brick breaking.
One of the best fighters I worked with was also fantastic at Tai-Chi. His footwork and working of angles was masterful and effortless, and when he hit.....oh boy....power!

I find the hard and soft COMPLETELY complimentary. You can't (or rather SHOULDN'T) have one without the other. Softness allows you to move. Try doing your karate katas at Tai-Chi speed and you will see how much HARDER it is to balance and transfer your weight and get the timing to work.

If you can put together the joint and muscle sequence that comes from training soft with the muscle strength and focus that comes from training hard you will really start to take off in your training.

Don't get too bent out of shape if you haven't figured it out yet. It'll come over time. Keep working both aspects. You'll be training one day and it'll start to click that one really does compliment the other.

Answer 3

All Eastern martial arts are derived from a set of stretching exercises that were originally developed in India. This tradition was spread throughout the Orient by Buddhist monks. China has a longer history with martial arts, as they were doing it before the Japanese. However, both countries have their own flair and you may be correct in your assumption that Japan received more notoriety due to the occupation.

Answer 4

No offense sir, but I think you are referring to Internal vs. External. Hard is more striking (boxing, Karate, TKD) vs. soft as more grappling (wrestlling, judo, jujitsu). I think i it great to train both hard and soft styles so you can handle different situations. Yes, you can both internal and external, the principles of useing a relaxed punch with good body mechanics can be further improved through actually hitting a target and strength training. Making the muscles stronger (like traditional external ma) helps all strikers and grapplers. We can argue that you don't need strength all day if you want but if you have two fighters and one is in better shape and is stronger... I'd go with that one (period).
Martial arts in general can conflict as some teach different ways of attack and defending. I believe you can benefit from both internal, soft, hard, and external in your training. I believe the fighters of old cross-trained in a lot to be ready for different situations. The movies tend to disagree with me though. Just my thoughts?

Answer 5

even the most external/hard art is an internal journey !
wish you all great success in yours
(%)

this round goes to lochlan j !
not my place to provide such a detailed answer to the question posed . brilliant answer !
yes, its impossible to 'flick' chi when tensed up , a running stream,or garden hose doesnt stop , then start , then stop , unless constricted , perfect ! give LJ the star :)


i can tell you it was very difficult and time consuming to 'unlearn' the hard timing strikes i practised for years ( a pseudo-shaolin karatified type of robot dancing ) .
when i started my journey into the internal arts .

i moved like the tin man in the wizard of oz =))
i had to LEARN to relax , being told didnt do a thing hahaa

Answer 6

You can definately practice them at the same time.

The only problem might be if you try combining principles during
class. When taking a class in one discipline some instructors
may be "purists" who will not appreciate your using methods
from another discipline when their sole objective is to get you
to perfect the methods and principles that they are teaching.

Answer 7

Arghh! I was going to use the Yin/Yang analogy, but someone beat me to it. Yes, they can and should be used in harmony with each other.

As Bruce Lee said "Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. If you put water in a cup it becomes the cup, if you put into a bottle it becomes the bottle. You put water into a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend."

It is that last statement that pertains specifically to your question. Flowing refers to the soft styles, while crashing represents the hard styles.

Be water, my friend.

Answer 8

they can be, however the mistake most "soft" practitioners make is that they mistake soft for "flacid". Meaning that there is also a "hard" component to it which moslty are not taught like that.

This means that rather than maintain structure when they should, they take bieng "soft" to mean no resistance and let them "push" you when what it should mean is don't meet force with force in the same direction head on meet force in one direction with force pushing against it in another.

Answer 9

That is the whole principle behind unorthodox you train with your mind as well as your body.Mix and match.That is how most of the excellent ultimate fighters have excelled to champion.

Answer 10

i dont agree with the first answerer much but on this occasion he's right.(sorry mate i couldn't remember again and i didn't want to disrespect you by getting it wrong)but i will add that it is a must that you do both.hard and soft have a link and if you only do one your leaving yourself with a weak point.