Question #3 for Mormons: Steel bow?

Question

First, I asked Mormons to explain the claim of a steel sword 2000 years before they were invented.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070130210803AA1aITC&r=w

and:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AoVreUu6Lin1Tne3_.c7bwDsy6IX?qid=20070130222713AA8tGS0

I don't expect anyone to be an expert at metallurgy, but I do expect religionists to set a standard for honesty. All claims made by us are subject to scrutiny, and if we're going to try to encourage others to change their lives according to our beliefs, we owe them truth, not fraud.

Here's my second question for Mormons:

Why does I Nephi 16:18 claim the existence of a "fine steel bow" in 600 BC, again centuries before the technology existed?

"And it came to pass that, as I, Nephi, went forth to slay food, behold, I did break my bow, which was made of fine steel..."

Don't bows have to be flexible to work? Are we talking about piano wire here, or was the body of the bow made of steel?

Dave, I have a high evidenciary standard for everyone. I treat the Bible the same way.

fotoshop_alberta: Joseph Smith translated the book with an 1830 English vocabulary. He knew what steel was. But then Any inaccurate translation on his part throws the entire Book of Mormon into question.

Pinkadot: when it comes to metals, we have an immense and precise knowledge of what developed, when it developed, where all the metals were mined, how they were mixed, and what they were called in each of dozens of ancient dialects. It's nearly impossible to misunderstand.

Guitarpicker56: Your acceptance of the book for yourself is your own choice. I'm introducing a new concept to you: accountability. When your religion sells this book to others as "another testament of Jesus", the evidenciary standard increases substantially. Faith isn't good enough for those who don't live by it. They need assurance by other means.

For myself, this is how I determine whether your religion has a standard for honesty equal to Jesus' or equal to Jim Jones'. Is this a breaking of bread or a drinking of Kool Aid? As long as the lives of my family are on the line, I'm going to be very demanding, if you don't mind. I think I owe that to them.

Answer 1

I am Christian, not mormon, but I have to say this:
You are right in what you say about telling the truth; however, keep in mind that on this forum we constantly hear people quoting the Bible, along with a comment that shows that they do not understand what is meant by the verse. I'm bringing this up, because you should be very careful that you are not calling names when perhaps its just an idiom (a saying) or metaphorical in some way. I don't know; but just be careful who you judge, ok?

Answer 2

The translations from Reformed Egyptian on the gold plates into English by Joseph Smith are acceptable by me. If it says steel swords and bows--and I know that it says so--then I accept it as steel.

As one poster submits, perhaps that steel in the bow had some give to it. We have no photographs of such writings so we Mormons go on faith, regardless what the anti-Mormon and atheists proclaim. The Book of Mormon also testifies of horses being present in those times. I accept those, regardless what historians and other scientists argue.

Because the translations were done by the power of God, through the ancient device called the Urim and Thummin, I accept it as true. I'd much prefer believing the words inspired by the Lord than of those mortals trying their best to disprove His word.

Answer 3

No one cares about the fact that it says steel. You are just being nit-picky and posting essentially the same question.

Based on the fact that he fashioned his next bow out of wood and an arrow (no string mentioned) - I think that it meant the body of the bow.

As for the steel - it is mentioned in the Bible around the same time frame. I doubt it means the exact same kind of steel as we use today. Of all the things to pick on in our religion, however, this is probably the first and only time anyone has picked on the use of steel. There is a reason that professional religionists don't pick on us about steel - it is a preposterous and utterly unimportant point of argument. Give it a rest, will ya?

And about your comment on Pinkadot's post... I say that is a load of crap. Just stop insulting everyone and carrying on with pointless arguments.

Answer 4

fotoshop is correct...think about words definitions and their evolving...think about the word "gay" used to just be happy...
When Joseph Smith was given the plates to translate, he recorded that they had the 'appearance' of gold, not that they were what we know as "gold". Could not this also be the case? Steel - we know what that is. Think about WHO the scriptures are for - US. God knew WE would need to be able to understand them...what if in Nephi's day they referred to what WE know as "steel" to something else...then you would be questioning that also no doubt...but the Lord knows what we need to know and don't. Maybe this is again where faith comes in. Religion cannot be proven to anyone, I do not care what the religion is, EXCEPT to those who believe and have faith in it and then receive a confirming witness from the Holy Ghost that what they believe is correct.
Did it require faith of Nephi and the other's for Nephi to again be able to obtain food? He asked of the Lord whither to go to find food - remember they were wandering and the Liahona, when they were righteous, would lead them where to go...
28 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, beheld the pointers which were in the ball, that they did work according to the faith and diligence and heed which we did give unto them.
29 And there was also written upon them a new writing, which was plain to be read, which did give us understanding concerning the ways of the Lord; and it was written and changed from time to time, according to the faith and diligence which we gave unto it. And thus we see that by small means the Lord can bring about great things.
30 And it came to pass that I, Nephi, did go forth up into the top of the mountain, according to the directions which were given upon the ball.
31 And it came to pass that I did slay wild beasts, insomuch that I did obtain food for our families.

Answer 5

Compare the bible and christian beliefs with the mormon book and beliefs and it is as plain as day that mormons only claim to be christian because they are afraid to stand up as an entirely separate religion! Do Christians have to wear silly underwear to go to church? Do Christians have to avoid various foods and drinks? Do Christians have to prove they are fervent believers before they are allowed into church? Do Christians have to ban anyone from entering church that is not totally committed? Do Christians act as if their religion is some sort of secret society by banning non members from their churches? Do Christians believe they will become gods?

Answer 6

Define "Steel" in 600 BC. Is it necessary that the metal that Nephi describes as "steel" is the same thing that we describe as "steel"? A lot of things which started out meaning one thing now mean another. I'm no metallurgist, but I am aware of some metals which have give to them.

Answer 7

It was magic Klingon steel forged from the firey gases out of Uranus.

Answer 8

Why should Mormons be held to any higher standard than Jews, Christians, Muslims, or any other religion that attempts to construct a history from oral tradition and myth?

They're all, ultimately, made up fictions (albeit possibly mixed with some historical fact). They are no more worthy of our study than Homer's books.

Answer 9

The Book of Mormons written by Joseph Smith and heavily plagariazed from the Bible is a fraud (like the Bible).

Answer 10

How long must one study to become as dumb as you??? E-mail me and let me know.