Who thinks the navy/military is too small and what should be done?

Question

What do you think we should do to save our military from labour who don't seem to think that we need to protect our selves

Answer 1

There is a need for the UK to assess and implement a defence policy. I assess the needs as follows:-

1. Capability to defend the territorial integrity of the UK.

2. Capability to act in aid of the Civil power, in cases of national emergency.

3. Protection of British trade.

4. Protection of British interests abroad.

5. A capability to provide credible support to our allies.

The protection of the territorial integrity of the UK requires land forces, air forces, and naval forces. Air and naval forces should be able to prevent major landings of enemy ground troops. Land forces wil need to be able to concentrate rapidly to contain and destroy any enemy forces that do obtain a foothold.

The forces to achieve these ends are as follows

(a) Long range, high endurance surveillance sattelites and aircraft such as Nimrod, AWACS and the P3 Orion to give early warning of an approaching threat.

(b) Interceptor squadrons of aircraft to destroy incoming enemy formations, and thereafter, to maintain air superiority over the UK.

(c) Fast naval missile craft to attack and destroy in coastal waters.

(d) Submarines capable of conducting surveillance in our coastal waters; also in the Greenland, Iceland, UK gap.

(e) Regular troops, with armour and mobility, to confront enemy forces and defeat them.

By this analysis alone, it is obvious that we are not able to meet even our own basic commitment - to defend our own shores.

If I analyse the rest of our commitments, in full, I will still be typing away on this site in twelve hours time. At the moment, I need another beer, and a pee.

The undermentioned is my personal prescription for the future shape of the UK forces.

Home Defence

Satellite system, backed up by AWACS (4 flights), ELINT(Electronic Intelligence - 4 flights). Naval Surveillance - 6 flights P3 Orion, plus existing Nimrod capability.

A minimum of 12 squadrons of Air Superiority fighters. We should consider buying 4 squadrons (64 aircraft?) of mothballed F14s from the US, along with Phoenix missiles. The ability to shoot down enemy aircraft at the 60 mile plus range of the Phoenix will be a force multiplier. The UK has the expertise to recondition these aircraft, and reconfigure the electronic warfare suite and missiles to modern standards. The other 8 squadrons can be Typhoon, and reconditioned Tornadoes.

Coastal Naval force of ocean-capable fast attack craft - Vospers at Southampton can build them. Base a half-flotilla (4 ships) at Harwich, Hull, North Shields, Forth, Arbroath, Fraserburgh and Thurso - that is the East Coast covered. A diesel submarine force of 8 boats to cover the other approaches to UK waters.
Minesweepers and patrol vessels as of now. 3 flotillas of frigates (Portsmouth, Plymouth and Rosyth) to provide additional punch, and deep water capability.

12 light armoured brigades (Scorpion/Scimitar) with MICV distributes throughout the UK. Consideration should be given to buying or constructing the South African Rooikat as a Scorpion replacement, along with the older Ratel 90 system which South Africa has largely mothballed.

Troops to guard static points, ports, bridges etc to be drawn from TA units, and a new, third line, volunteer reserve of troops to man checkpoints and do general duties could be drawn from the over-45 population.

This sorts out the basic Defence of the Realm.

Action in Aid of the Civil Power

By my anaysis above, we have 12 Brigades (36 Battalions) of Infantry home-based, plus TA, plus third-line 'Dads Army'. An additional 12 Battalions of truck-borne infantry will be necessary to re-inforce the 12 Brigades, and these 12 Battalions should remain at Army level and be available to the Civil Power as well.

Protection of trade, support of British interests abroad, and support to allies can be considered as one.

Britain, and her allies, must realise that we are an island, and that our skill is in trade, business, and gunboat diplomacy. The UK is, therefore, a maritime power. We must withdraw all Continental land and air force commitments. In future, we will do what we are best at - gaining local superiority at sea and in the air, and securing landing zones and beach-heads/bridgeheads. The big boys, such as the USA, can then exploit inland. To do this, we will need:-

2 Aircraft Carrier Task Forces, comprised of

1 CVA (large aircraft carrier)
2 DDG (General Purpose Destroyers)
6 FFG (General Purpose Frigates)
2 SSK (Nuclear powered attack submarines)
Logistic vessels.
Assault ships
6 Royal Marines Commandoes (Battalions)
6 Parachute Regiments (Battalions)

Finally, 8 SSK for independent patrols
4 SSBN (Nuclear Ballistic Missile Submarines) for our Strategic Deterrent)

The British Order of Battle would be, therefore

8 AWACS
8 ELINT
12 P3 Orion
24 Nimrod
64 F14 Air-Superiority fighters
128 Typhoon fighters
64 Tornado Fighters
Transport Aircraft - Hercules, C5 as required.
128 Hawk trainers/ light strike.

64 Maritime Strike Tornados, land based.

28 Offshore Strike Craft
24 Frigates - 2nd rate, for UK seas
8 Diesel submarines

2 CVA (Plus aircraft - 32 Air Superiority, 32 Strike per ship)
4 DDG (GP Destroyers)
12 FFG (GP Frigates)
12 SSK (Nuclear powered Hunter-Killer submarines)
4 Fleet Oilers
6 Fleet Replenishment ships

4 Assault ships

6 Commandoes, Royal Marines

36 Mechanised Infantry Battalions
12 Motorised Infantry Battalions
6 Battalions, Paratroop Regiment
Artillery, tanks, anti-aircraft guided weapons in proportion.

7 Battalions, Gurkhas.

Support Corps in proportion.

Helicopters (Apache, Merlin) - distinct force multipliers - provide in abundance.

With such forces, we can defend our shores, and do what we are best at overseas. We can provide a degree of credible support to the USA. If Europe is stable, we can detach some of our home assets to the aid of the wider world. We can involve our older citizens in the static defence force role (dad's army), which will enhance community cohesion - how many over 45s lose pride, with today's culture of youth, by feeling 'past it'.?

We will not be able to provide for the land or air defence of continental Europe. France and Germany can take the lead role in this. We do need, however, to put ships in the North Atlantic, the USA has disbanded its North Atlantic fleet.

We can start this improvement tomorrow.

The USA has mothballed 32 Spruance class destroyers. We could buy the lot for a peppercorn, dismantle some for spares, and refit the others with our own radar and weapons. As it will take a year or two to refit these ships, we have adequate time to recruit and train sailors and officers to 'person' them. The US Navy would probably exchange these ships for a few crates of 'Pussers British Navy Rum'. If we assigned Gordon Ramsay as their culinary consultant, they'd probably give us the ships, as long as Ramsay went with them.

South Africa has mothballed numerous Casspir and Buffel Armoured Personnel Carriers. These vehicles were designed to operate in a mine-rich environment,. and will suit our troops in Afghanistan and Iraq until we get out of the commitments. Following this, they will make excellent vehicles for the Royal Marine landing forces I have envisaged.

Does the Government have the guts to commit the finance? Now, there is the rub. Or will most of it be spent on consultants to tell us how we can reduce our forces even further, and provide free abortions for women who are not pregnant?

Answer 2

Of course our military is too small and anyone who says different is blind or ignorant. How in the hell can you be a super power in war time and have an all volunteer military! The very notion of it is ridiculous along with all the other dumb excuses of why we continue to stay on this course.
It comes back to the basic problem facing this nation...WE'RE WEAK! Our president is weak and so are our citizens. We need a draft, it's that simple and without one, it's just a matter of time before we get caught by a real military with our pants down.
We walk around saying stupid 3 word kindergarten phrases supplied by this inept administration, like army of one and freedom isnt free but when the time comes for everyone to pitch in we go DRAFT! WHY! NOT ME!
Yes our military is far to small and sooner or later we're going to have to pay the man for that decision...Thanks Bush! You're a heckuva leader...NOT!

Answer 3

I'm assuming by the fact you spell labor with a u in it that you're British. I'm an American and I just saw news not too long ago that said the British Navy was now smaller than the Dutch Navy.

I have to say it is sad to see what was once the strongest and proudest navy in the entire world be relegated to such an insignificant position. In America we consider the U.K. our greatest friend in the world, and certainly your country needs to be able to protect itself. However, your politicians are probably considering the fact that your country has several defense agreements with the United States and belongs to NATO. Plus, Europe is not the very aggressive continent that it once was a long time ago and you don't have to worry about imperial jockeying on the world stage for various territorial claims by France and Italy and Spain etc. But if you are to continue to maintain any global influence you have to have some maritime power, and more than it requires just to protect your homeland from an invasion, which seems highly unlikely it would ever happen. You do have nuclear weapons that deter aggressors from invading your country, and makes you equal to more powerful nations that may be stronger than your country in every other index of power.

I've observed that most European nations, and even though Britian is in Europe we'd like to think that the British are better than just the average Europeans, are proud social democracies that enjoy the benefit of many government sponsered programs. This is another benefit of America flipping Europe's defense bill and giving European governments more money for domestic programs. While many of these programs are enjoyable and have become routine in your country, not all of them are neccessary like maintaining a strong fighting force is. You should cut some of those programs and put the money back into your navy. You should also encourage your military to become more cost effective and place less emphasis one expensive weapon programs that your American counterparts have, and would probably sell or give to you in the event that the UK was in severe need of them. Also remember NATO considers an act of war against one member state to be and act of war against all member states, so the UK should never be drug into a war by itself. That, however, is in theory, in reality we saw what happened in Iraq. Nobody was attacked technically by Iraq, and so our other European "friends" had nothing to do with alleviating the terrible suffering of the regime of Saddam Hussein on his people, and disarming him of wmd's that even France said he had.

Answer 4

The military is too small for all the wars and peacekeeping tasks that this Government expects them to carry out Time and time again the Government has rewarded their bravery and dedication with ever more Defence cuts. If the Argentinians ever invade the Falkland Islands again we'll have no naval force to send there thiere.

Answer 5

I am not a Labour (UK) voter...but - the new ships like HMS Dauntless & HMS Daring that have been launched recently - are supposed to be the Worlds most advanced War ships.. nowadays all they need to be tooled up with are a few Nukes . thats the way the next Wars will probably be fought.. cutting back the troop numbers is sad...but a modern warfare reality..

Answer 6

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Answer 7

We have the largest fleet in the entire world! However i do think we should follow in the steps of germany and israel who make military service compulsary for one year once your 18.

Answer 8

I think they should start national service again, it would also help to bring our poor sciety back to normal.

Maybe stop some of the immigrants coming in as well.

Answer 9

Start the draft back up! It's eventually comeing to that.

Answer 10

Well apart from it being a proud (and expensive) tradition we should be asking whether we actually need a navy or not.

I mean can it keep out drug smugglers, illegal immigrants, muslim terrorrists etc??

If not then against what is it defending us?

Answer 11

So you are completely unaware that every large reduction in military personnel and hardware in our history has been conducted by Conservative governments then????