For Mormons: Please explain I Nephi 4:9.?

Question

Two Mormons from Yahoo! Q/A have asked me to post questions here about Mormonism. This is the first one. If I get a decent answer, I'll move on to the next one, which is more difficult.

This is I Neph 4:9 from the Book of Mormon:

"And I beheld his sword, and I drew it forth from the sheath thereof; and the hilt thereof was of pure gold, and the workmanship thereof was exceedingly fine, and I saw that the blade thereof was of the most precious steel."

(This verse comes from a story that took place around 600 BC in Judea.)

My questions are these:

Why would a sword have a pure gold hilt? Gold is a lot heavier than other metals and very soft, in fact useless for a sword except for ceremonial purposes.

Why would a sword in 600 BC be made of steel, if steel wasn't invented until 2000 years later?

How do you guide your life by a religion that is founded upon the integrity of books that make errors like this?

(This is a question of morality and common sense.)

Pilgrim, steel is made by tempering iron with carbon (usually coal). This process wasn't invented until the Middle Ages. The story was written during the "iron" age.

Correction, the story "takes place" about 600 BC.

Miranda, the reason I know that steel was not processed as early as this is because the best funded and most powerful armies for the next dozen centuries all used iron.

For some reason they thought it was the best available. This is not based on documents, it's based on the metal weapons left behind and analyzed.

Hibby, lucky for us, God awarded us many ways of finding the truth, and prayer is not the catch-all. It's irresponsible of you to teach others to rely on it exclusively. This is the first step to brainwashing.

When we're researching something of the material world, such as a steel sword that defies reality, we're free to avail ourselves of other methods of determining the truth. Don't you want your God to reflect the truth of history when you're praying and waiting for an answer?

(The last Mormon who tried this lame answer left my house shaking with anger when I posed further questions about this book. Don't play games with me. Your people walk door-to-door selling this book of frauds. You owe it to all of them to ensure it's quality, and if you don't, I will.)

Straightup: You have completely misunderstood and misjudged both me and my question:

You claim I'm "against Mormons" even though in several places I explicitly said I was not.

You claim that my question is irrelevant because this small detail has no impact on a person's faith. Unfortunately, the LDS Church is passing this Book of Mormon off as a valued tool and a life-changing book. I don't know what you consider relevant, but if a book is supposed to change a person's life, the details inside, and an assessment of accuracy is MOST CERTAINLY relevant to me.

You claim that there is no way of knowing if steel was used in swords. Are you pretending that steel is perishable? Bronze was crudely surfaced with carbon as early as 600 BC, steel tools were slowly developed over the next 1500 years, and steel SWORDS first appear in the Middle ages!

You claim this might have been a mistranslation. Excuse me? The book was printed in 1830. Steel had been known 500 years by then!

Answer 1

Nephi is talking about Laban's sword. He was the king. He didn't need a functunal sword, it was more for decoration. He had people to go out and kill others for him, he didn't do it himself. That's why the hilt was gold. It didn't need to be functional, just look good.

As far as the steel thing, how do you know for sure that steel wasn't used then? Do you have something that states it wasn't invented until later? Steel was used before 600 BC. It had a little less carbon in it then it does today, but it was still refered to as steel. Do a search on the history of steel. They have found steel that dates back before 600 BC, so who's to say that it wasn't used them? Also, it talks about steel in the bible, around the same time frame (Jer 15:12). So they were using steel the same time as Nephi was around.

Read your comment about my answer, and let me say that if you read the bible, they mention steel as yearly as the decendents of Adam. That's a lot sooner then you say. Also, if you would research it, you would find that they have dated steel back to before 600 BC. Here's a site that tells when steel was discovered, where and what time period it was dated to. Should hold some interesting facts for you. http://www.nrlccp.org/iron.htm

Answer 2

Questions like this are almost irrelevant to anything, especially because you are dealing with religion, which is completely based on faith (there are plenty of things in the Bible with no explanation at all). That being said, and understanding no matter what the answer you will remain against Mormons, the sword of which you mention was that of the self-proclaimed king or governor of the area, it was likely the sword WAS more of an ornamental item then an actual weapon. Additionally, it WAS likely a ceremonial or family hierloom type item. So, the fact it was all crazy and ornate, etc. makes sense. As to the steel, despite your arguing with factual periods of steel use, which was much later, there is NO way of knowing whether it could have been discovered or used earlier. Additionally, maybe "steel" wasn't even the correct word. Joseph Smith was "translating" the Book. It could be there was no adequate word other then steel for the material of which the sword was made (maybe it was close to steel or a different combination then we know today). As I stated earlier, it really shouldn't matter and is insignificant. There are ways to make anything look negative or bad and on the other side one can find rational/logical reasons for things, especially when dealing with things of the spirit or God.

So, your arguments in no way reflect upon the integrity of the Book and in no way should influence anyone to lose faith in a certain religion. That is common sense. And, to respect and allow someone to worship as they do...that is taking the moral high ground. I'd be glad to answer any other questions (or, you could give me some of your beliefs and I could try and make them look crazy...oh, wait, I wouldn't do that because I respect you for whatever you believe). God speed.

Answer 3

As was said, powerful men had decorative swords and Steel has been found at prior to 600 BC.

You are clearly putting thought and effort into this. I'd like to ask you a few questions. Have you read the book? After you read it, did you sincerly pray to God and ask him to help you know if it was true or not? And If you were to find out that it was true, would you be ready and willing to change your life accordingly?

The Book was written in a way to promote faith in Christ and teach Gospel truths, not to prove itself emperically.

When Joseph Smith translated it it was commonly "known" that the spanish brought the first horses. Wasn't it foolish for him to include documentation of Horses? He was mocked for this. Years later we find horse skeletons that date back 1500 years.

My point is this. If the book is true, then maybe it's our understanding in certain areas that are not complete. If the book is fiction, then it doesn't matter. If you believe that God still loves his children and will help them find answers to sincere questions, then you should do so on your knees and in your heart and not on Yahoo Answers.

Answer 4

Well let's see, two "Mormons" asked you to post this question? Uh, right..................okay, I'll play.

First you do just a little research won't you.

Even the "authoritative" Wik documents ancient steel as early as 300 BC. Steel (such as it was, wooden and other)is known to have existed as early as early as 700BC (at least that is what scientific dating has placed it at).

Why would anyone make a sword hilt out of gold? Good questions for the British National Museum. Maybe they were scammed when they paid 125,000 pounds for an example of an ancient hilt made of pure gold. (link below)

But I don't know, obviously you have so much more common sense and and morality that you can't be bothered with facts or to even stand up for your own weak question.

Love ya anyway.

Oh and Whynotask, not one coin, could have fooled me. Here is just one small link to much more than a coin.

http://www.the-book-of-mormon.com/photo-proofs.html

Love you too.

Answer 5

I'm not Mormon, and am certainly not defending their silly book, but iron & steel are recorded as being in existence early on.

Gen 4:22
Tubal-cain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron:
KJV

This is pre-flood, Adam was Tubal-cain's great great grandfather.

As far as a sword's hilt being made of gold, that is pretty silly, The hilt of a sword is its handle, consisting of a guard, grip and pommel. Gold is a soft metal, and easily broken or cut through. I wouldn't want to depend on the guard of my sword being gold. I'd worry that I might lose a thumb.
.

Answer 6

We educate a similar gospel that grow to be taught via Paul, the different apostles, and Jesus Christ so there is not something to reconcile. desire that helps. Edit: The e book of Mormon is named "yet another testomony of Jesus Christ" not yet another testomony/gospel. in case you extremely wanna get choosy look on the completed names of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. each and each of them has their very personal gospel. yet all are compatable. a similar with the e book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and the Pearl of serious fee. John received a resourceful and prescient from an angel and recorded it because the e book of Revelation and no man or woman has a situation with that. Paul himself grow to be switched over by skill of a heavenly visitation from Jesus Christ. Paul isn't putting forward that each and each man or woman angelic or heavenly visions are incorrect. he's asking the Galatians how they could have fallen away so instantly from what he purely taught them. Sorry my ideas are a touch disjointed, it really is been a lengthy day for me and going to be longer nonetheless, yet i'm hoping that clears some issues up. Your's isn't the first question to address this difficulty. in case you look into another web pages extremely than carm you'll discover tremendous LDS responses to it.

Answer 7

Yep!


NOT ONE COIN has been found from the great history laid down in that book!

The plates are GONE.
The peep stone is GONE!


STRANGE!