Fellow Atheists: How do you reason with a moderate Christian?

Question

Does anyone have a good summary against this perspective? The typical wall I come up against is the idea that God thought we were too dumb to understand science (which he created) so he gave allegorical stories instead.

Answer 1

I never understood that proposition, that God "created science". What does that mean, exactly? He created the scientific method and it existed as an abstract until one of us grabbed hold and ran with it?

If we're all so very very dumb, how can we be expected to grasp the hidden meaning in "His" allegories? We're so unimaginably daft that we can't understand science (which we can, actually) and yet we're meant to decode every bit of that blasted book without missing a beat (because "perverting the word" is likely to get you a short walk and a very long plunge).

Answer 2

Being an atheist myself, I see a couple things about your question that tells me something about YOU, and makes me suspisiou re:the authenticity of your conversations:

(1) "Fellow atheists" - do you have the notion that we're all alike and we belong together in a group, or that we ARE in a group? that we all match?

(2) "reason with" - do you think religious studies, religious ideologies, spiritual distinctions and/or religious viewpoints are based on REASON and not emotion?

(3) "moderate Christian" - do you thihk it's fair to fragmentize people, lable them, fit them into nice easy categories ("fellow atheists", "moderate Christians" etc)?

(4) "typical wall" - do you have a difficult time with people, like you always run up against a wall, constantly?

(5) "too dumb to understand science" - do YOU understand science? i understand some of it, but not all of it. I dont have a problem with the idea that some people (me included, and probably you, too) might not be able to understand science.

Having said all that, I've found in my own experience that the strongest postion an ahteist can have when having discussions, debates or conversations about God with "moderate Christians" is a strength that comes from actually knowing what the Bible says. And if God created man in His own image, then how could man be too dumb to understand science?

Of course, we dont believe in god. I dont.

Answer 3

I've given up trying to reason with them after last weekend. I's like banging your head against a wall. It's never going to make a dent. I would tell them that God gave us the intellect to think & adapt so the capacity for science was a gift from God. Of course, some of the fundamentalists would rather have their child die than take them to the hospital.

Answer 4

Where's THAT written in theBible?
huh...

Moderate? Why reason? Present your case, allow them to present theirs, shake their hand and walk away. That simple.

This little cover trick they're trying is pretty much their wild card. Don't argue religion. If you have a question that you think will challenge a person's beliefs, ask it. If not, don't bother- the end result you will always get is a brick wall- "my god is responsible."

Answer 5

Some good areas to pursue might be:

A soul concept. (When does a soul enter the body? If twins merge in utero, do their souls merge? When a twin splits, does their soul split?)

If heaven is a real place, where is it physically located?

If you believe in evolution, when did original sin enter in? Where along the evolutionary chain did humans become responsible for "sin"?

If it's supposed to teach "moral lessons" what kind of morality is taught by eternal punishment for a finite "sin" of not accepting Jesus (if your friend doesn't believe in a literal hell, ask why the great moral teacher Jesus talked more about hell than heaven?)

Why did God want the book of Revelations in his "moral code"? What did that teach us?

What's up with the 10 commandments? Seriously! They're awful! Children can come up with "10 Important Laws" that are morally superior to that.

Answer 6

easily. moderate christians believe in thing like freedom of religion and speration of church and state.
you may not change their views, but they will generally be kind in a conversation/debate.

your idea works pretty well- but I wouldn't say god thought we were dumb. I think the bible was written when people lived in the desert and their main devices were rocks and sharp sticks- do you think they could expand their minds to understand evolution- especially those whom had never seen the majority of animals in the world due to lack of traveling over large bodies of water.

Answer 7

nicely, i genuinely examine all of it, you're able to desire to grant me some credit for that! So now I even have an account of a Christians point of view, i think of that's only honest to grant you my atheist point of view approximately what you have mentioned. The unusual studies you mentioned seem unexplainable. i'm no longer even going to start to objective to describe them as i wasn't even there on the time, in spite of the undeniable fact that from an atheist's point of view, it style of feels irrational to apply something much greater illogical to describe something. you won't have the ability to think of how technically a tumor can disappear, yet you answer it with 'god did it' which then creates much greater questions. as an instance, how did he bodily do away with a tumor? the place did the tumor bypass? Why could he p.c. to do away with a tumor from only this individual whilst there are hundreds of human beings additionally dying from having a tumor? human beings watch magic exhibits each and every of the time with unexplainable issues yet no person claims that god might desire to have been in the back of it. And the version between documented technological information and the bible is that the bible is many hundreds of years previous, and that's been translated many cases in many languages. technological information in spite of the undeniable fact that has been tried and examined many times. A scientist will in many cases spend his or her entire existence attempting to teach their very own thought incorrect, as will many different scientists. in all equity, the technological information and historic past of on the instant are a lot greater solid for giving outstanding suggestion that the bible. on the top you asked does anybody sense the comparable way, and that i could say confident. i've got faith pissed off that folk shrink back technological information and have faith in something thoroughly illogical. yet on the top of the day i understand that that's only my very own opinion. as long as different's ideals do no longer dictate the way i stay, then i'm satisfied to settle for them. i assume that folk could only comply with disagree.

Answer 8

Here is the difficulty: You believe in the non-existence of God, Christians believe in the existence of God. Neither side has verifiable proof.

Since neither side of the debate can conclusively prove its point, the debate is an exercise in futility.

Neither side can "win."

Give it a rest.

Answer 9

I'm not Christian, but why try to reason or change someone's mind about what they believe? Faith, as long as it's not hate-mongering, is extremely helpful to some. Let people believe what they want. If they want to 'convert' you, just let them know that you respect their belief system and hope they respect yours and it's not open for discussion.

Answer 10

I dont feel the need to reason with them. I am not crazy about people "evangelizing" me, so I dont feel the need to do so with them. Now, if someone just wants to get my perspective I give it and that is the end of it.