In the past Jehovah Witnesses consulted with Johannes Greber who was a former Catholic Priest, turned Spirit Medium. Greber often stressed that the original English translation of the Bible had errors, and one of the main errors was the belief that Jesus is God. He claimed that through communication with the spirit world, he was taught that Jesus was created, and NOT God.
Is it possible Jehovah Witnesses obtained this belief from Greber, and simply did not correct the error in their teachings and have been deceived for years? It is true that Witnesses eventually wrote a letter ending all contact with Greber. However, this was after they had agreed with this spirit medium concerning the Divinity of God. Deuteronomy 18:9-12 says that communication with spirit mediums or any occult practice is an abomination.
2007-01-29 06:59:57 · 8 answers · asked by StartingOver 2 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
No, Greber's New Testament was copyrighted in 1937. The JWs first leader (Charles Taze Russell) and friends initially believed the Trinity in the late 1800s. They did not begin to say Jesus was a created being until about 1900. However, the Watchtower Society leaders eagerly upheld Greber's translation (or 'dictation' to be more precise, as spirits told him and his wife what to write down). They claimed it as support for their anti-Trinitarian views, and once their own New World Translation came out with the same corruption of John 1:1 as Greber had, it was added to the list of translations denying, or being ambiguous about the deity of Christ. (Make Sure Of All Things 1965, p489 & The Word - Who Is He? According To John 1962, p5 footnote)
Yet in 1956 they wrote in their official Watchtower magazine a critique of Greber, using his bad rendition of 1 John 4:1-3 as an example; "Very plainly the spirits in which ex-priest Greber believes helped him in his translation." (15 Feb, paras 10 & 11) Then in 1980 they wrote to the Johannes Greber Memorial Foundation, thanking them for sending Greber's New Testament and his book "Communication with the Spirit World of God", asking for more New Testaments to stock their libraries. (Letter dated 20 Dec. 1980 from Brooklyn HQ). But on 10 Dec. 1981 they wrote to a Keith Morse in St.Louis saying they could not help him get a copy of that New Testament other than pass on an address, different to the one they'd written to a year earlier. Likewise to a Helen McAllister (letter 21 Sept. 1981). To be charitable, one would like to think they were just trying to protect people from this evil mistranslation, but they certainly knew how to get copies for themselves a year earlier!
But this still leaves unanswered why the Wt.Soc continued using Greber as support for their own Bible - up till 1965 - when as far back as 1956 they condemned his work as spiritistic! It is also worth noting the many things this spirit medium believed, the Wt. Soc ALSO believes: Jehovah alone is God the Father, Christ's body was not resurrected, the body of Jesus was dematerialised, there is no eternal hell, the Christian Church today is not preaching the gospel.
If that is what an ex-priest, who had turned to the abominable practice of spirit mediumship believed, should not thinking JWs be worried?
2007-01-29 09:03:04 · answer #1 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 5⤋
Mat 16:13 (Johannes Greber)
When Jesus entered the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked of his disciples, “Who do the people say that I, as the son of man, am?” They answered “Some say you are John the Baptist;others, that you are Elijah; still others, that you are Jeremiah or one of the other prophets.” Then he asked them further, “But you, who do you say I am?” Simon Peter replied. “You are the Messiah, the Son of God, of the Deliverer.”
KJV:
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
ASV: Now when Jesus came into the parts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Who do men say that the Son of man is?And they said, Some'say John the Baptist; some, Elijah; and others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets
He saith unto them, But who say ye that I am?And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
You will notice that in Johannes Greber translation there is an addition of “of the Deliverer” so that’s an addition to the Bible. But the translation rightfully state that Jesus is the Messiah and the Son of God. Eventhough Johannes was helped by the “spirits” he translated parts of that correctly. Is it a reliable translation? I don’t think so, and it is true that Jehovah God doesn’t like humans to have anything to do with spiritism.
But the demons know that Jesus is the Son of God. See Mat 8:28
Mat 8:28 - 28 When he got to the other side, into the country of the Gad•a•renes´, there met him
two demon-possessed men coming out from among the memorial tombs, unusually fierce, so that nobody had the courage to pass by on that road. 29 And, look! they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God?”
Was it wrong that Jesus is the Son of God, because demons said it? No. Because other verses of other Bible versions (ASV, KJV, NWT, etc) , show that the Father, confirmed that his Son, is Jesus.
Other Bible versions, confirmed that the NWT is also correct in translating John 1:1.
1864: “and a god was the word.” The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading, by Benjamin Wilson.
1928: “and the Word was a divine being.” La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel.
1935: “and the Word was divine.” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.
1946: “and of a divine kind was the Word.” Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme.
1950: “and the Word was a god.” New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures.
1958: “and the Word was a God.” The New Testament, by James L. Tomanek.
1975: “and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word.” Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz.
1978: “and godlike kind was the Logos.” Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider
2007-01-30 10:47:51 · answer #2 · answered by trustdell1 3 · 1⤊ 0⤋
No! That is not true.
Why on earth do you believe the witnesses would contact someone who claims to have spirit oriented powers when this is shunned in the Bible?
We know Jesus is God's son and not God because that's what the Bible says! God sent Jesus, not himself, to the earth to die for our sins (yours included) so we can have the hope of living on a paradise earth forever. (John 3:16).
And the Bible remains the same. From whenever this agreement was made, before then, and after then. And we still have faith that what the Bible teaches is the truth!
I wish you well.
2007-01-29 15:12:59 · answer #3 · answered by ♥LadyC♥ 6 · 5⤊ 1⤋
This is a preposterous argument against Jehovah's Witnesses...
Did the apostle Paul also agree with the demons? Perhaps this questioner believes that Jesus was influenced by the teachings of demons as well? Sadly, this question reflects a real ignorance of the bible pattern for such sad occurrences involving spiritism.
The bible actually speaks plainly of the fact that the demons sometimes communicate bible truths; of course Christians recognize that the demons have no right to do so and so Christians do not listen to the demons' disgusting arrogance.
Consider these accounts:
(Acts 16:16-17) And it happened that as [Paul and Silas] were going to the place of prayer, a certain servant girl with a spirit, a demon of divination, met us. She used to furnish her masters with much gain by practicing the art of prediction. This girl kept following Paul and us and crying out with the words: “These men are slaves of the Most High God, who are publishing to you the way of salvation.”
(James 2:19) You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder.
(Luke 4:33-35) Now in the synagogue there was a man with a spirit, an unclean demon, and he shouted with a loud voice: “Ah! What have we to do with you, Jesus you Nazarene? Did you come to destroy us [demons]? I know exactly who you are, the Holy One of God.” But Jesus rebuked it, saying: “Be silent, and come out of him.”
(Luke 8:27-28) .But as he got out onto land a certain man from the city who had demons met him. And for a considerable time he had not worn clothing, and he was staying, not at home, but among the tombs. At the sight of Jesus he cried aloud and fell down before him, and with a loud voice he said: “What have I to do with you, Jesus Son of the Most High God?
Like Jesus and Paul, Jehovah's Witnesses have clearly demonstrated an intolerance for anything related to spiritism. They reject totally any association with Greber.
Yet... if Greber's scholarship had shown that the sky is blue, would the Witnesses be wrong to believe and teach that the sky is blue? Anti-Witnesses do their cause a disservice when they associate themselves with such weak and preposterous illogic.
2007-01-29 15:09:43 · answer #4 · answered by achtung_heiss 7 · 4⤊ 1⤋
No.Jehovah Witnesses have believed for centuries that Jesus was created.The belief is that Jesus is NOT god,but the son of god.And no the thought didn't come from Greber.
2007-01-29 15:04:21 · answer #5 · answered by Dat_Gangsta_Chic 2 · 4⤊ 1⤋
No. They believed that before Greber and they deny the existance of Greber now.
2007-01-30 06:43:00 · answer #6 · answered by Buzz s 6 · 2⤊ 0⤋
JWs are not the only religion to reject this teaching. Theirs is not the only Bible to says it. No, they have nothing to do with spirit mediums or magic, as is common in the churches of Christendom.
They got it from having tens of thousands studying the King James Bible and seeing the truth, long before the NWT came out.
2007-01-29 16:00:10 · answer #7 · answered by Anonymous · 5⤊ 1⤋
I do know they believe Jesus is " a " God just not "The God". but when I confront them with being polytheistic it really throws them and they cant answer.
2007-01-29 15:04:59 · answer #8 · answered by Haven17 5 · 1⤊ 5⤋