Question for athiests?

Question

Right. So there is this gigantic question hanging over everybody's heads-- does God exist? Let's not get into the politics of it, or the specificities of religion (creationism vs. evolution etc.), or all the supposed harm caused by religion, but let us just address the issue itself-- does God exist? I just have one point to make, one argument (for now), which I would like to see answered rationally by athiests (I have many athiest friends btw, so I'm not hating or anything). Can anything, in which one can see order and logic, come together without some sort of guidance? Example-- take a look at a wall. It's just a wall, a simple wall-- it does not move, speak, feel. It doesn't do anything. Yet walls, simple as they are, still have order and structure to them. They do not come together through sheer chance, or through random chaos-- they are forged, through the guidance of men, to be what they are.

Never, in the history of the universe, has a wall been constructed through sheer random chance. Now if something as simple as a wall cannot come together without guidance, will, and direction (in this case coming from mankind), how can the universe, or even more specifically speaking, just the planet Earth—with all its miraculous features (for example, the millions of species of life, or the perfectly structured atmosphere)—how can that come from sheer chance? It is totally non-sensical. Of course it can come about through evolution (just to make it clear that this is not an argument proposing Creationism and a 6000 year old Earth), but even that must be controlled by a Creator to make it viable, whether it appears to be random or not. I’m genuinely interested to hear people’s honest responses. No rudeness please, or you will be reported. Ciao!

Leviathan, you are an idiot. I am doing a B.Sc, and I've studied evolution enough thank you very much. If you actually understood what I have written, I actually make it pretty clear that evolution is not random. More importantly, I think I also made it pretty clear that I'm not into semantics here. All I want to know is that don't you think that the Order present in the Universe clearly points to some level of creation, regardless of the means? Because essentially, if you are an athiest, you must believe, to an extent at least, that it is by chance that we are here. Adios. Jesus-- people say I'm not open-minded.

Answer 1

I'm sorry your 'theory' falls down at the first hurdle - and you've misunderstood what evolution is.

It is NOT a theory of random chance. Mutation is random - selection is not.

If you want to ignore the overwhelming evidence about evolution and insist that everything complex and autonomous has a designer then you raise the much larger problem of who designed God.

Back to the drawing board, buddy. Kind regards.

Answer 2

All living things take TWO, or dual natures to reproduce. The only example other-wise are single celled organisms. Plants involve the seed and soil to become anything. A single-celled organism is listed as having DAUGHTER cells to replicate. The only phrase I've heard about raising a child is 'It takes a village...'and, if you're going to stick by the adage that children need a father and a mother, that's still two.
So, how on earth could a creator deity be singular, much less male? And, where in nature is this concept shown? Also, the Bible authors even had a hard time with the concept of a singular good God being more powerful than the other 'bad' deity. There's even a verse in the Old Testament that says 'I, the Lord God create good and evil. I do all these things.'
As a human, can you comprehend light without shadow? Paul says 'God is not the author of confusion' so why would this deity not reflect his nature in any way, then insist we believe?

Answer 3

See for yourself. This website has free software that allows you to test that assertion, and it doesn't look so good for you....

http://dllab.caltech.edu/avida/

Computer programs can arise out of randomness. However, that's not in the real physical world so lets try something more basic. Take snow. It falls every winter and the same crystal structures can be observed in the lab, and their order is breathtaking. Yet the crystals are all produced by no force higher than temperatures below 32 degrees Fahrenheit. My hypothesis is that the little hot pool of prebiotic chemicals must have been cooling off when it formed life, for cold is one of the few ways to decrease the entropy of a matter at a molecular level. The laws of thermodynamics aren't broken because the heat leaves as infrared and the total entropy of the entire universe actually increases as things cool. Cool, huh?

Answer 4

> Can anything, in which one can see order and logic, come together without some sort of guidance?
Gravity can bring masses together. That's probably not what you're talking about, though.

Here's an idea. Get some sand and gravel, mix thoroughly, put in a bucket. Give the bucket a good shake. Although you didn't direct it to do so, the larger bits came up to the top -- no guidance required.

Answer 5

If I have a square hole, and some rubber balls slide over the edge and pile up in the hole,they will tend to stack (roughly) into a pyramid type shape. Who created that pyramid?

The funny thing about the idea of a necessary creator, is those who hold it think they are holding a pious perspective, but in reality their view simply diminishes nature as 'incapable' of such complexity without the need for outside influence.

Answer 6

But evolution does not happen by chance either.

It takes long, long years for something simple to become something complex.

.

Answer 7

Yes... but like a wall, "god" was created by humans.