2007-01-27 05:55:41 · 18 answers · asked by martiismyname 3 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
I was raised Catholic to believe this, converted to Baptist where it was strongly rejected, but have always still held to it in some way, and have always held a very high reverence for the taking of the Bread. I think that "consubstantiation" may be more of an explanation of my experiences and/or beliefs...thanks for the help.
2007-01-27 06:09:17 · update #1
Luther believed in a modified version of it...sometimes called consubstantiation. Luther debated this with his Protestant contemporaries who believed in Zwingli's view of total symbolism. Luther is said to have pounded his fist at the table stating: "Hoc es corpus deum!" or "This is my body!" which is what Christ said when giving the supper.
Consubstantiation is the belief that one is literally taking in christ's essence when partaking of the Lord's supper. It is not literally flesh or blood, but in essence, something supernatural occurs when you participate...you actually take something of Christ inside of you.
Many Lutherians believe that today and though I'm a Baptist, I believe it too. One cannot fully understand the spiritual world, and if Christ said that "this is my body" somehow it must be!
Blessings
2007-01-27 06:03:19 · answer #1 · answered by mesatratah 2 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Primarily Anglicans and Lutherans. The Greek word from scripture is parousia, which is often interpreted by modern lay English speakers as the second coming, but it actually means in simple Greek "real presence." The further you get from the ancient churches the more likely a church is to forget why something is the way it is. Orthodox and Catholic of course were around when the scriptures were written, Baptists were not and reject things because they don't really understand what they are rejecting. Transubstantiation is a way to conceptualize parousia, but it isn't the only way within Catholicism. It is more like what theologians call a theologoumon than a dogma, a way of understanding and thinking rather than the core mystery itself. I am not saying it is incorrect, but it is a heavily defined model.
2007-01-27 10:19:56 · answer #2 · answered by OPM 7 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Depends on your definition of "Protestant". Lets put it this way, the Orthodox Churches, the Roman Catholic, and the Episcopal Churches believe in the 'real presence' of Jesus in the bread and wine. (There are slightly different ideas about the way it happens, when it happens and what happens to the bread and wine as objects in themselves.) These Churches are, IMO, all 'Catholic' churches. Protestant churches, because they do not have priest (in the line of 'Apostolic Succession'.) can not make the 'magic' happen. (except for some of the Lutherans who have the concept of con-substantiation.)
Technically the idea of transubstantiation goes a bit beyond the presence of Jesus in the elements. Yes, the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ in all of the Churches I mentioned above. But the RC church also says that the bread and wine are no longer bread and wine in any way. The fact that they still "look" like bread and wine is an 'accident'. That is the true and total meaning of the term 'transubstantiation'.
The reason the Baptist church and other like them have only a 'remembrance' is because it's ministers are not in the line of Apostolic Secession and do not have the power or authority from God to make it happen.
2007-01-27 06:03:51 · answer #3 · answered by tonks_op 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
A lot of denominations believe in Real Presence, they may disagree on how they describe it. Even Calvin believed in the Real Presence, and more than a few Charismatics as well.
Lutherans DO believe in the Real Presence, Calvin did as well, he said it was a Spiritual Real Presence, but real none the less.
I personally think the RCC describe and define it too much, which leads to the thought that they have something different than anyone else.
Meg Micheals, it is not just the Baptists that the RCC and others think they deny the Real Presence. Baptists btw do not believe in Real Presence in Communion, but they still have the Real Presence of Jesus through the Holy Ghost whether you want to admit it or not.
Marty, i go to a Baptist church and i do believe in Real Presence as well, i believe in a Calvinist way. Maybe Baptists do not want to get into the foolish fight the other denominations are having on the matter. "We have the Real Presence, and you do not and we will tell where and who has It"........
2007-01-27 06:10:51 · answer #4 · answered by màrrach 2 · 0⤊ 0⤋
Only Catholic interpret the Bible literally in regards to the Body Blood Soul and Divinity in Jesus Christ in the Eucharist.
Biblical Reasons: Literal
Jn 6:35-71
Mt 26:26
Mk 14:22
Lk 22:17
1 Cor 10:16
1 Cor 11:23-29
Ex 12:8, 46
Jn 1:29
1 Cor 5:7
1 Cor 2:14- 1 Cor 3:4 explains Jn what "flesh" means in Jn 6:63
Sacred Tradition:
Saint Ignatius 110 AD
"heretics abstain from Eucharist and from prayer, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the Flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ..." Letters to Smyrnaeans 6, 2,2.
2007-01-27 06:05:13 · answer #5 · answered by Lives7 6 · 2⤊ 0⤋
No, the Catholic Church takes a much more literal stance toward religion, believing that the little crackers and wine do become the body and blood of Christ (transubstantiation), but the Protestant faith looks at religion in a more symbolic way believing that these items only represent Christ's body and blood.
2007-01-27 06:02:52 · answer #6 · answered by Moon 3 · 2⤊ 0⤋
There are some Lutherans who believe in the Real Presence, and who have been granted permission to receive Holy Communion in a Roman Catholic Church. The last Pope, John Paul II, wrote a long letter on that relationship.
There are also high Anglicans (Episcopalians) who also believe in the Real Presence - but because of other doctrinal differences are usually not admitted to communion in a Catholic church.
2007-01-27 06:01:23 · answer #7 · answered by Uncle John 6 · 0⤊ 1⤋
Just to be clear, it is NOT only the Roman Catholic church that believes this.
From my first link: (Under Roman Catholic)"Communion is available to members of the Assyrian Church of the East, the Orthodox Churches, and the Polish National Church. Baptized Christians who do not belong to these churches may receive Catholic Communion only if they are gravely ill, do not have access to a minister of their own church, ask for Catholic Communion on their own initiative, and are "properly disposed" toward Catholic Eucharist.
Catholics in danger of death may receive the Eucharist from a minister of the Assyrian Church of the East, the Orthodox Churches, or the Polish National Church only if a Catholic minister is unavailable and if they request such Communion of their own volition."
2007-01-27 06:07:55 · answer #8 · answered by Anonymous · 2⤊ 0⤋
Th real presence of Christ in the eucharist is maintained by the Catholic and Orthodox Churches alike, as well as all the other churches of the east, such s the Maronytes, the Chaldeans, Assyrians, Coptics, etc.all of them in its fullness. Anglicans, after Henry VIII maintained this as well, but later influence by Lutherans leaned it towards a mere presence but not real substance of Christ, kinda in between concept.
Later on Calvin completely rejected the presence of Christ in the eucharist, either symbolic or real and this is the predominating view in most fundamentalist protestants.
Transubstantiation is , if you break it in parts: Trans: through
substance:
So is the change of the substance of bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. Just as he said: This IS my body...This IS my blood. Christ didn't say: "This represents my body" nor eat this AS IF WAS My body. He said THIS IS my body, period.
Amen
2007-01-27 06:08:06 · answer #9 · answered by Dominicanus 4 · 2⤊ 0⤋
Whatever you may personally believe, you should be aware that you will not receive the Body and Blood of Jesus in a Baptist church, because the Baptists do not have valid orders.
2007-01-27 06:31:26 · answer #10 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 0⤋