Believe in order to understand (Kindly answer within the category implied)?

Question

As illustration of those who come by way of Holy Trinity and those who come by way of Allah, lay claim that:

“In order to understand scared text, one needs to first believe; a person must use their minds and be afflicted with divine intervention.”

The fallacy of this line of argument conceivably be that of the other thousand or so religions, beliefs and philosophies in present circulation, a handful will claim similar conditions to understand their way.

Should this person then not ascribe to all the above belief systems to try to sort the wheat from the chaff to determine the one True belief, and in the process risk being burnt by all the other false beliefs and Gods ?

Are not all authoritative sources preaching one belief over another no different to the transient nature of each other ?

Flavour of the month, if you permit, is empirical science backed with rational philosophy.


Kindly refrain, if you please, ad hominem attacks of all parties participating. Thank you.

david.. :: Not quite. There are ancient religions who profess similarly that it is through some act or deity that heaven, whatever names it is know by, nirvana, Shangri-la, etc, is attainable.

ABRIDGED
shaz.. –
- Belief systems born of familiarity alone does not illuminate without understanding and conscience to resonate against.
- Divine intervention seen in the eyes of one who believes.
- Religious movements leveraged on society predisposition marked itself in history at the cost of harmony, intolerance and exclusion of other belief systems.
- Personal affinity would suffice as a lead indicator for further investigation.
- A characteristic observation of faith demands absolute devotion.
- All beliefs run a common thread suited to the times.
- Reconciliation of belief systems, of science and philosophy to faith and religion,
necessitates an eventual resolution, such as Quantum Physics.

:: Unequivocally understood.

Asker’s contention: Belief includes Science and Philosophy. i.e. Does a sick person not believe in going to a Doctor on faith, of finding relief, whose science is understood similarly on faith based on empirical evidence (simple deduction that the n-th value is likely to produce the same result therefore affirmation) that can be rationalized by the human mind.
Similarly, prove love and hate: Is that verifiable simply because of familiar encountered and rationalised characteristics ?
Divinity could be simply be an infinite state beyond comprehension of the human mind.

- How can divine intervention seen in the eyes of the beholder be verified independently as a non-delusional state ? What of the influence of autosuggestion inflicted on the self, regardless the influence from belief systems ?

- Who is to determine that conscience and personal affinity, born and conceived of finite man, come close to ‘good’ divine values that may be in direct incongruity with what finite man believes and thinks is correct ? For all we know, affinity with ‘bad’ divine ideas may be more attractive of the two.

Pete.. – “One must understand in order to believe. How can anyone profess that which they don't know?”

:: Science and Philosophy, relies largely on empirical evidence and various patterns of thinking (the driver of Philosophy). Such tests are often not valid nor equipped to provide a comparison of Faith and Belief. Evidence to date is without direct physical verification, save that of hypothesis and postulates of Quantum Physics.

Ideas based on Quantum Physics, at its most cynical, remain at best a set of conjectures.
In alluding to the above contention, can a finite mind truly comprehend infinite concepts, ideas, etc ?

Present belief systems readopted the idea that belief and understanding go hand in hand. This in itself provides the above dilemma that one is never sure to know to be in a collective delusion, where faith and total devotion is called upon at the exclusion of considering the alternative.

Ernes.. – “Truth can only be revealed; revelation brings understanding and belief… man’s error make the truth of God of no effect? Naturally not...Without revelation, the Word is a dead book as the testimony of many here confirms…mind amounts to a tool in understanding a revealed truth, but is not capable of a higher or new discernment…The heart governs the use of the mind above evidence…blind faith is misconstrued…empirical science backed with rational philosophy could be equivocated with any other belief system…If God be true then every man is indeed a liar.”

:: Well understood and illustrated from the point of non-secular belief.
Unfortunately, this statement is only open to those who have either studied or been exposed to this way of thought; Islam, Hinduism, Judaism would beg to differ.

A seemingly time immemorial schism applies with all belief systems encountered that do not lend easily to compromise in that persons ascribing to one set of belief system(s), secular and non-secular, are not able to provide an adequate bridge to reconcile the two.

A crux in the division of states run by religious figure heads and secular sovereign states, possibly lies in the process of processes, arriving, premise and concluding.

Flyin.. – Illumination involves (Confucius advocates in part) thinking around issues to understand, based on partial belief in the authoritative assumptions. Seeing the heart of an issue requires lack of external and internal misleading information that leads to confusion.

David.. – “Do you really know the way to heaven on your own?”
:: Precisely, do we know anything for certain ?

Answer 1

Interesting question !
People usually believe what they are familiar with, i.e, a child brought up in Christian family/society will believe in Christianity,but, belief alone will not bring understanding, one does need to use the mind to discriminate if the teachings resonate with ones own conscience, as for Divine intervention, If we are sincere, I believe that our efforts to understand are reciprocated, by whichever aspect of Divinity we seek to understand.
I think it is important to remember that all the major religious movements are appropriate to the times and mentality of those peoples where inaugerated, such as Hinduism in India, Islam in middle-east etc. therefore followers will reject all other faiths, believing thiers to be the "one true way".( thus so much separateness, the opposite to what all the teachings teach) !
I would not say that it is necessary to ascribe to all the belief systems , just the ones that one feels an affinity to, check them out as it were.
All the beliefs preach thier own beliefs as being above all others, I guess this is an aspect of faith, but looked at objectively this is not so, all beliefs have valuable teachings and all teachings have almost the same message, designed for the people of the time.
Hopefully science and philosophy will soon realise the important link between the two, and one will back the other, as is starting to happen in the field of quantam physics.
Hope I have understood your questions correctly.

Answer 2

There is only one true God Who can only be known in spirit and truth. Notice known and not known about.

The truth can only be revealed. Revelation brings understanding and belief.

The mind is a servant of the spirit and needs enlightenment.

To use your terms there must be Divine intervention first. Without that, we are left with myriads of false ideas and thoughts generated by man and other sources. What if some or even many claim similar conditions, as you say, for their understanding? Does their error make the truth of God of no effect? Of course not.

What God reveals is truth and it is unique and uniform to all who have received that revelation.

Divine revelation concurs precisely with His revealed word. How gracious and prescient of Him to provide us with such a certain measure. Yet without that revelation even the Word is a dead book as the testimony of many here on Yahoo Answers confirms.

You cannot by the mind alone find out God. How absurd! Yet so many make this serious and fundamental mistake. Yet the mind is crucial to understanding the revelation given.

The heart is what governs the use of the mind. God declares the heart deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it? Only God. He searches it and tries it.

Proof is relatively easy but it is the heart that refuses to accept. If faith were from the mind alone, everyone would believe. Even the Devil knows the truth. But it is the heart that is at enmity with God.

When the heart is turned to God, it cannot turn itself, then the veil is removed. It is with the heart that man believes, the mind is a vital and crucial servant in the matter. Thus it is not blind faith as so many ignorantly and foolishly assert.

There are of couse other factors that come into play going beyond the scope of your question or enquiry.

I am sorry to say that your empirical science backed with rational philosophy lies in undisturbed darkness. It is nowhere and on the same level as superstition and all the false religions and beliefs that there are.

If God be true then every man is indeed a liar. To Him we must go. God is the true reality and we can have truth only as He gives it. Until then it is we who are in the dark and sealed up in our disobedience.

How very humbling. What anathema to man's pride. How the simple and foolish, weak and base and despised confound the wise and clever and mighty!

How utterly we need God.

Answer 3

Fragments of Confucius, partly due to difficulties in translation, are about thinking around the issue in order to understand hence you should have some belief in the assumptions presented with the text, an underlying interest leads to better understanding, if you believe in one thing without considering all other viewpoints then have you understood the issue at its heart. Confuciusm may not be seen as a religion but it regulates social interaction and delegates duties within the family in some parts of the far east.

Answer 4

Quote:' As illustration of those who come by way of Holy Trinity and those who come by way of Allah, lay claim that'

An assumption surely? Where do they state your subsequent quote? Who are 'they'? If someone has said it, do they speak for all?

I assure you they don't speak for me.

I contend that the reverse is true, one must understand in order to believe. How can anyone profess that which they don't know?

God bless.

Answer 5

You forget a simple line of argument If you are destined to put in hard labour you will do so people who have belief in destiny claim every morsel of food has the name of the person who'd eat it written on it. Believe it or not Take it or leave it

Answer 6

Jesus is the only one that saids "I am the truth the light and the way and know one comes to the father except thru me" all the so called other religions say "Your the truth the light and the way". Do you really know the way to heaven on your own?.