Abuse of Grace in North America and Western cultures? Atheists and Christians please??

Question

Romans 6:1-2

"What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

It is a TOUGH call trying to preach obediance instead of sin then repent, then sin and repent, then sin and repent... in the western world.

I have been mocked, hated and accused of trying to spread cult evil...because I have a call to share the truth with Christians. Truth about His commandments and removing paganism from the church. Which really is its origin after the Romans got a hand in it.

I expect resistance. All tough messages go unreceived.

The road is narrow....and I dont deny or understimate grace by any means.

But can we be honest...does western Christians abuse grace... just sin cuz you'll be forgiven attitude??

I admit I have done it. Lots.

Lets be real Christians for a moment and be honest. Is this right? honestly??? I know we cannot fulfill the law! But do we just live like hell and expect heaven?

Y'know what I admit also...removing paganism from Christianity will take away ALOT of our traditions and holidays. But we bring in the feasts of the L-rd.

G-d wants me to have an impact in this area. I'd love some honesty on this.

Blessings in the portion of Love He Graced me with,

David T

LadySUri how is calling us to obedience "changing His Laws??" curious

Answer 1

Yes I feel that "cheap" grace is rampant in Christianity. Grace is the only way that we are saved, but it should not be taken lightly. Here is how I see it: Imagine that you were to steal my car, and then take it out joyriding. You wreck my car to the point that it is useless. I then come up to you and say "hey what did you do to my car?" You then apologize to me and admit that you made a mistake. I then tell you "don't worry about it, I forgive you. In fact, I won't ever even remember it." WOULD YOU STEAL MY CAR AGAIN?
I feel that is how we are to act towards God. He forgave us and paid the penalty for our breaking of his law, therefore why would we continue to do the very thing that made Christ die for us?
My only suggestions for all Christians is to walk the fine line between grace and law. Realize that you are saved by grace and grace alone, but keep the commandments to the best of your ability, without becoming legalistic and feeling that your commandment keeping has anything to do your with your salvation. Commandment keeping has to do with your relationship with God. Christ said: "if you love me, keep my commandments". (John 14:15) and in John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love."

Some people think they are not necessary and are avoiding very clear scripture:
I John2:3 "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

I do also agree with you about pagan traditions and customs in Christianity. Martin Luther did a good thing by challenging the "authority" of the Catholic church, but many Christians fail to realize that much of the paganism of the Roman church was not removed. I have to wonder why so many people will keep days that are full of lies (a fat man who flies around on flying reindeer and delivers gifts to the whole world in a few hours, or a giant egg laying bunny?), that are nowhere mentioned in the Bible, yet they ignore the Passover and Feast of Tabernacles which are days that Christ himself kept . Thankfully he will "make all things new" someday, and straighten everything out.

Answer 2

Christianity and Judaism are as opposed to western values as Islam is, the only reason they seem not to be is because most of the followers of those two religions have been very thoroughly secularised to the point at which they value anti-theistic western civilisation more than their religion (very few of them even realise that the basis of western civilisation is anti-theistic). Oh and don't be too worried about the radical Muslims, they have a terrible belief system which can't survive in fair competition with individual rights. One must still recognise them as a threat, but don't go overboard otherwise you'll just make the same mistake a lot of idiots made with communism (i.e. treating it as a dire threat when it was really just something to contain and allow to fail on its own). Pin, feeling loss: 'Western' culture should win because it actually respects individual rights, it isn't the people in the countries that are trying to keep western culture out that are doing it, but the leaders who oppress the citizens.

Answer 3

David T: Watch out for the "leaven of the Pharisees" - legalistic self-righteous approaches to the Christian faith. It is all about GRACE not legalism. Grace promotes choice based in love for God and mankind; whereas, legalism promotes "dos and don'ts" and no human can keep God's laws perfectly. Therefore, we are justified by faith and not works. Moses had works [the law -10 Commandments, talked with God on Mt. Sinai] and he [Moses] never, entered into the Promised land -he died in the wilderness.
Legalism is not the gospel ! Read the book of Galatians to get the gist of what I mean. Faith through grace not "works". Love fulfills the law ! Love promotes action - not law keeping ! And "no" we can't live like "hell" and expect heaven, either ! It is all about relationship with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit supplies Christians with the desire [impetus] to promote love to God and neighbour, by our actions . It requires something holy [Holy Spirit] to please a Holy God [Father] - all about a spiritual connection and relationship. Yes; grace can be both, abused and confused !


David: "Atlas" has a few good points to ponder on, in his posting. Legalism promotes a very restrictive atmosphere which is not conducive to spiritual growth and well - being.

Answer 4

We are sanctified through Christ, which is the work of God's free Grace, whereby we are a work in progress. Sometimes we fail God by disobeying Him, but as a loving Father forgives His children, so our Father forgives us. When Jesus died on the cross, He died for all our sins, past present and future. The sin you commit tomorrow has already been dealt with on the cross. As we grow in Christ we recognize those sins each day and repent and receive the forgiveness that has been granted at the cross. No it doesn't mean that we are to continue to Sin purposefully but when we do sin we are convicted and made sorrowful unto repentance. Is that what you want to hear?

Answer 5

I think it has more to do with the messenger than the message. I've been several different churches and in some you get a real good vibe, and you can see how caring and loving the people are. You go to others and it's reall doom and gloom and strict. Most of those people grow into the intolerant, and eventually hateful, people that are complained about on here to this day.

I also think you've gotten your first taste of power, and that you've loved it.

Answer 6

Sola scriptura is not only unhistorical and unworkable it is unbiblical. Sola scriptura is simply not taught anywhere in the Bible, either explicitly or implicitly. There is absolutely no Scriptural warrant for the Protestant claim that the Bible is the sole infallible guide to Christian doctrine and practice.
All of this debate on how Scripture should be interpreted gets us nowhere if there is no way to know, with infallible certainty, that ones interpretation is the right one.
The teaching authority of the Catholic Church comes directly from Christ and is, therefore, infallible and everyone must accept its interpretation as the final word.
Speaking to Peter and his disciples Jesus said, "And so I tell you; what you prohibit on earth will be prohibited in heaven, and what you permit on earth will be permitted in heaven". _ Matthew 18,18
Jesus also said, "Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; and whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me". - Luke 10,16
This teaching authority is eternal. "And teach them to obey everything I have commanded you. And I will be with you always, to the end of the age". - Matthew 28,20
And comes from God: "When, however, the Spirit comes who reveals the truth about God, he will LEAD YOU INTO ALL TRUTH". - John 16,13
The problem is other Christian denominations deny the teaching authority of the Catholic Church. If only they did, we will not have any problem.
May the Lord's peace be with you.

Answer 7

"Atheists and Christians please??"
"Lets be real Christians for a moment and be honest"

How about no. I don't want to be what you perceive as a "real Xian". You consider yourself that and you're far too intolerant for me. And I've found that Xians are not necessarily honest.

Also, I agree with Moiraes Fate above who said to try again without the bible quotes. If you ask an atheist for an opinion on something, why would you cite fairy tale quotes that they don't believe in to back yourself up? That's just foolish.

Answer 8

I really think G-d wants you to stop changing His laws which He has to painstakingly preserved, which you have no business doing in the first place. That's what I believe, honestly. And even more honestly: I think you are getting quite high and mighty to be preaching to everyone. Who are you to tell them what is good and bad and what day they should be worshiping on? Chrstianity has gone on fine without you and will continue to go on fine when you're gone.'

Because you are trying to change the meaning of the laws. You also don't understand them a bit.

לילה טוב

Answer 9

Christians take advantage of Grace. We all have and none of us should. You're right in what you say and you're right in thinking it will not be received well. I'm with you though.

May God Bless you.

Answer 10

Nah. Embrace the traditions, the belief needs to have SOME good points.