Do creationists believe in relativity?

Question

Time is clearly the important issue with creationists. As special relativity completely does away with absolute time, do you believe in it? This is particularly important as over the short time span overwhich you believe the world has existed, relativistic effects in things like black holes has the potential to greatly distort time and hence put a large error on the age of the universe (if you can even say that without absolute time).

d_china_m: I completely agree, science is not something you believe in. Relativity is fact, like gravity, like evolution.

Mr noneofyourbusiness: I am not suggesting that you use black holes to date the universe, I just answered this q:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AgarEgFkJsDdoxqwo9KC5Kzsy6IX?qid=20070123163308AAbh14d&show=7#profile-info-69092e87ad22c31ffee4d4a0a3325169aa
All I'm pointing out is that near the event horizon of a black hole, the time dilation is going to be a significant proportion if the universe is only 6000 years old.

STINKER: There are actually quite a lot of people who understand relativity, its not rocket science (its part of the UK A-level physics course). I said time dilation (a Lorentz contraction, I can give you the equations if you want), not time warp as in a wormhole or something.

Answer 1

Yeah, that guy's right. Relativity is lie, so is gravity, orbital mechanics, the human genome project, anthropology, astrophysics, anything to do with oceanography, dinosaurs, or prehistoric man . . . . all this so-called science stuff is lies.

If you want to know the truth, stop being an atheist and start studying talking serpent science, which is a branch of creation science.

Answer 2

Yes, at least this one does.

I am what you would call an 'Old Earth Creationist' and many people are not aware that we exist. Here it is in a nutshell:

The Hebrew word used to define 'day' in Genesis 1 is 'yom' which does not always translate as a literal 24 hour day. Depending on what describer is used with it 'yom' can mean 'sunset,' 'first watch,' or any other unit of time. In genesis chapter 1 it is used without any describers at all (the only place in the Bible this occurs)

So, if we take the word 'yom' to mean 'period of time' (ie: a billion years here, a billion years there - bear in mind that ancient peoples had no mental concept of a number that huge) then the creation story in Genesis matches up VERY closely with what science is telling us about the big bang.

If you imagine yourself standing where the earth will be as the big bang unfolds around you, the description it pretty much spot-on.

1. There was nothing (many ancient religions presuppose the existence of the world) darkness was everywhere
2. There was light (the first thing that would have come from the big bang)
3. the earth was formless and void - giant cloud of dust coalescing into a planet
4. There was day and night - the earth is turning now
5. God separates 'the waters of the land' from 'the waters of the heaven' - we have an atmosphere and water vapor
6.Dry land appears
7. Vegetation appears (probably mostly spore producing plants as there would still be a great deal of dust keeping out most of the light)
8. Sun, stars, and moon. (they were always there, but now that the dustcloud is gone we can see them)
9. Water creatures appear
10. More complex animals appear
11. Man appears

No bad for religious text eh?
Anyway, my worldview allows for billions of years between now and the beginning of creation (the big bang). So yes, I believe in relativity.
Bear in mind that Christians who believe in a few thousand year old universe (Young Earth) get that number by tracing back the chronology based on Jesus' family tree, they bend any scientific facts to fit that presupposition.

Hope this helps

Answer 3

As a Catholic and one with a firmly grounded belief in Creation, I see no distortion in relativity verses elements of time, which act like fixed points. My belief is that the Creator is constantly shaping and entering into the encounters of probablistic conflicts in the universe. In fact, I often suggest that the formula derived for relativity in its simple expression E = MC^2 explains the Catholic Mass better than many worded expressions. That the Lord enters into the Created Universe more expressly than the Sun enters into the natural workings, and through the workings of the Mass and the Light Raised by powers of God, restores Creation and man's regeneration in grace and Light as part of the cosmic enterprise that is His Love. For it was the great saint Padre Pio, a saint of our own age who said: the world could more easily exist without the sun than without the Mass. The mirror of Creation simply mirrors the things of the Creator. And in Truth there is no distance between the knowledge which is reality and the knowledge which is revealed through the Holy Spirit.

We have very poor tools, and actually understand very little. Even less do we succeed to apply well what we know. But a constant search for Truth brings us closer to the reality of the One who truly loves us all. His Power is the greater than any force which aspires to conflict, and so as Pope John Paul II said:
Be Not Afraid.

The first expressions of our astronauts in outer space were to praise God in His magnificent Creation. And they read from the Book of Genesis:

Then Bill Anders spoke, not just to CapCom, but to all the world listening to his words from so far away. “For all the people on earth,” he said, his emotions unmasked, “the crew of Apollo 8 has a message we would like to send you.” A brief pause, and then Anders stunned his audience as he began reading from the verses of the Book of Genesis:

“In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth.”

And along with this idea, you mention the age of the creation, the earth and the universe. And I believe that it maybe disorted and may not be measurable by our instruments. And I say this because in Genesis, in the pre-flood era, there were [apparently] no rainbows, the firmament held a natural set of dynamics that were different, and that God altered Creation (Time, Light, and Firmament) with the flood and the lifespan of men. We are in this age more beset by the sun and the natural elements and the radiation that resulted from this exposure, altered the readings on our instruments and they do not correspond to a true time chronology. By the same token, the Lord says that there is a period or an age of the generations of mankind and when that is ended, He will make all things brand new.

Answer 4

Actually some creationists use the special relativity theory to "prove" how the World was created in seven days. Go figure...

I don't agree with your statement that the theory completely does away with absolute time. It just states the possibility of "bending the curve of time", entering another dimension of time-space. But time is always there...

As for the Evolutionist-Creationist debate, I think the main flaw of both sides is to reject all arguments against their "faith". Any scientific approach has to be made with an open mind.

My personal theory is that Creationism, in the biblical sense, is obviously a very limited theory. However, a purely rationalist approach of existence doesn't explain the "intelligence" in evolution

Answer 5

"This is particularly important as over the short time span overwhich you believe the world has existed, relativistic effects in things like black holes has the potential to greatly distort time and hence put a large error on the age of the universe"

Nobody uses black holes to date the universe! There is an explanation here so we can have an informed discussion:

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/cosmicd.html

Answer 6

Testing a theory and having it work once or many times does not make it proven, But I do believe in relativity, It is a theory that has not been shown to be false yet. So the theory still holds up to this day. Tomorrow someone could run an experiment and prove it wrong. Who knows.

Answer 7

I've always believed that a day to God is something more like a few billion years as opposed to our 24-hour-day. And yeah, I loved learning about relativity in college because it really demonstrated to me how time, would seem to pass very differently to two beings on different physical surroundings.

I also thought that whole gravity happening because matter puts a dent in the universe thing was really cool too.

Answer 8

We don't have any problems with this science. Perhaps some of the assumptions related to it become a problem. Einstein said "God doesn't play dice with the universe" and was amazed by the design of everything.

You know you’re an Atheist Fundamentalist when:

1.) You believe that all life “evolved” due to a spontaneous explosion in space. But say the naturalistic Mayan belief that the Sun is our Father and the Moon is our Mother is absurd.

2.) You say it is impossible for God to always exist but believe the universe accomplished this impossible feat. And then you box yourself in by saying at one time there was nothing and that 0+0=1 is good math for “free thinking” people. To deny it would be blasphemy against the faith of science.

3.) You believe that “religion causes wars” and that an atheist world without any kind of moral precepts other than what is borrowed from those same religions would produce world peace. And this explains why Joseph Stalin was such a peace loving guy.

4.) You believe that amino acids assembled themselves into proteins and then those proteins assembled themselves into reproducing living cells that evolved into fish and later evolved into humans. And then at the same time you say “faith” is a ridiculous concept.

5.) That the conservative extinction rate in the fossil record of 10 to 100 species per year doesn’t pose a mathematical problem for species that take millions of years to evolve. And today’s extinction rate of 27,000 species per year doesn’t complicate this problem. And that we should let the “experts” do the hard math for us.

6.) You believe that amino acids spontaneously chained into proteins although you could try a trillion combinations a second for 5 billion years and still not use up all the possible non-protein combinations. And even if that did happen you only have one protein for your first “simple“ cell. And yet, you claim “it must have happened or we wouldn’t be here.” And that’s much smarter than believing Tarot cards.

7.) Although, there is absolutely no proof that evolution ever happened you hostilely point to adaptation as “proof” that “micro-evolution” is happing today. But flat earth believers pointing to a flat spot in the Sahara Desert as being a “micro flat earth” would be ridiculous.

8.) You loudly proclaim that Finch beaks adapt from large to small and that this “proves” evolution in action. Although we already know the DNA for large and small beaks already exists in both populations, and absolutely no new data is being created out of thin air. But rejecting the absurdity of evolution is being closed mined and religious.

9.) You believe in the beginning there was nothing and then it exploded. And since science has “proven” that there is no God it must have happened that way no matter how absurd it may sound. That’s not superstitious.

10.) You believe that all the works of Beethoven and Mozart are a result of a random explosion in space caused by nothing. But religious people must not be doing the math and therefore cannot understand the higher knowledge of true science.

11.) You believe that the second law of thermo dynamics is only science as long as you don’t apply it to the process of evolution. And that’s not the same as believing in magic.

12.) You praise the great wisdom of science like a religion and yet scorn all other religions.

Answer 9

There is nothing to believe in, because it is fact, just like gravity.

Experiments have been performed where two nuclear clocks were synchronized, one was taken and flown at high speed for some time, and brought back to ground level. When compared, the time for the moving clock was slower then the stationary clock.

Answer 10

Ever heard of the emperor's new clothes? You must, so i will only tell you relativity is incomprehensible to just about everybody. warping time? nobody but a few suspect people claim they understand it. i think you and them are the few who can see the emperor's new clothes. allah akbar and booming blasts of methane upon you. ha ha. time warp is only real to writers like Isomov and Bradberry. If you like time warp and relativity you will love "The Martian Chronicles."