What is Hell? Fire and brimstone or silently rotting in the ground?

Question

There are two notions (at least) of Hell in the Bible. Two of them strike me as contradictory. Which version is the better one?

Some claim that the Old Testament version (Ecc. 9) is correct, as it portrays a more loving god. If you do not worship God, then you suffer no ill effects; you simply will die at the end of your life. If you do worship God, then you have everlasting life.

Some claim the New Testament version (Luke 16) is correct, as it is not fair for non-Christians to enjoy God's graces. They made their bed, so they deserve the punishment they get.

Which version would you rather believe? God's OT version or Jesus's NT version? Is there something that allows both versions to be reconciled?

Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 says:
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

Luke 16:22-23 says:
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Answer 1

Sorry to just copy and paste this, but I've typed this in already a few times on different questions, and I'm not going to re-create my work here.

First of all, the Torah doesn't mention "Hell", nor is that word in the the rest of the Christian bible's Old Testament.

Not in the original.

It's Gehenna or Sheol, not "Hell".

The word Gehenna traces to Greek, ultimately from Hebrew: גי(א)-הינום Gêhinnôm (also Guy ben-Hinnom (Hebrew: גיא בן הינום)) meaning the Valley of Hinnom. The valley forms the southern border of ancient Jerusalem and stretches from the foot of Mt. Zion, eastward, to the Kidron Valley. It is first mentioned in Joshua 15:8. Originally it referred to a garbage dump in a deep narrow valley right outside the walls of Jerusalem (in modern-day Israel) where fires were kept burning to consume the refuse and keep down the stench. It is also the location where bodies of executed criminals, or individuals denied a proper burial, would be dumped.

Like Sheol, Gehenna is sometimes translated as "Hell", which is fine...but the IDEA of Gehenna, in the process of translation and interpretation took on an UNintended meaning, a wrong meaning; the concept of "Hell" that so many Christians threaten non-Christians with.


Why would a garbage dump be considered a place of torment? Well, the only immortality that people have (in Jewish tradition) is in being remembered by others. The traditional Yahrzeit (the ceremony to mark the annual anniversary of the death of a person) is one way in which the memory of a deceased Jew is kept alive. The yahrzeit is observed by lighting a twenty-four hour candle the evening before the day of the yahrzeit, and most people recite the Kaddish and take a few moments of introspection and thought. Most congregations recite the name of the deceased whose yahrzeit is being observed during the Shabbat services closest to the date.

Naming one's children after a deceased relative is another way to keep alive the memory of the dead.

So....in summary, the whole idea of "Hell" as a place of eternal torment is a misinterpretation of the Jewish idea that being lost to memory is the worst thing that can happen to someone. Having one's body thrown onto the trash heap rather then being buried in sanctified ground with a commemorative headstone, and not being remembered through ritual, prayer, or having one's name passed along to future generations - THAT is the original horror that has been changed into the idea of the soul in eternal torment in the flames of "Hell".

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As for me, I don't believe there is any such thing as a place of eternal torment. So the periodic threats that I get from Christians about burning in Hell amuse rather than upset me.

Telling a non-Christian that they are going to burn in Hell is like calling a penalty on the *spectators* at a football game.

Answer 2

In the Old Testament people went to one area, no matter who you were, you were buried with your ancestors. The New Testament idea that you expressed is a Greek idea, where the dead go to the spirit world. I think that imagery was used because Luke was writing to Theophilus, a Greek, and it was a good way to get the idea of reward in the afterlife. Personally I believe that there will be the resurrection of the Righteous, and then there will be the resurrection 3rd ressurection where those who were not righteous (by accepting Christ's sacrifice). And then there will be a final death for them and they will no longer exist.

Answer 3

I have always been taught that the version in Eccl.9 is NOT simply dying. It is eternal separation without the light of His Presence or Love and eternal separation from all of your loved ones.

This fits in with the eternal punishment dealt out of fire and brimstone. Not only are they separated from God but they are at the end thrown into a lake of fire right along with Satan. This is because they made their choice in life and now must suffer the consequences.

That is why He sent His Son . We have a choice. If we choose His Son - we choose Life and Heaven, otherwise Hell is what we get.

Those whose chose Hell--did indeed make their own bed or in this case, their own choice - for all eternity. There are no
innocent bystanders in Hell - all made the choice to be there.

Answer 4

I believe the description in Revelation 20 and 21 are the most accurate and intentional detailed description of the eternal state of both believers and unbelievers.

Final state of unbelievers is being alone, apart from any chance of redemption, total darkness, constant pain and misery, and worse of all, fully conscious of what you missed out on by rejecting Jesus Christ.

A mistake to avoid is to take one passage of OT wisdom literature (genre analysis) and take it as a complete descriptive norm. One has to take into account how wisdom literature is intended to be interpreted within its normal genre, and the overarching original intent of the book, in order to most completely understand the particular passage you cite.

Ecclesiastes is intended to provide wisdom and instruction regarding the end of a life arc lived to pursue worldly and temporal fulfillment vs. a life arc lived to pursue God and pleasing Him. Revelation is intended to convey "what was, what is, and what is to come."

Great question, best to you.

Answer 5

We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him." Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren. To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost. Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire," and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"

The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire." The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs.

The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."

Answer 6

Hell is one of those subjects that makes people uncomfortable. We hear stories of hell being a place of fire, demons, and endless torment. Throughout history many authors have written about it, Dante's Inferno for example. Western culture is very familiar with the concept. Even Hollywood has made it the subject of many movies. Whatever the context, whatever the belief, hell is definitely taught in the Bible. But even the doctrine of hell is not without its controversy. Some say it is only the grave with no consciousness. Others say it is a place of correction and punishment that is not eternal. Others say it is an endless agonizing punishment in fire. Whichever it is, hell is the total absence of the favor of God.

Gehenna
In the OT, the word for hell is 'ge-hinnom' meaning "Valley of Hinnom." It was a place to the southwest of Jerusalem. This place was once "called 'Topheth' and derived from an Aramaic word meaning 'fireplace.' It was here that some pagan kings practiced human sacrifice by fire (2 Chron. 28:3; 33:6; Jer. 7:31; 32:25)(1). This is probably why in the NT the word came to be associated with destruction by fire. The word 'gehenna' is found in the NT 12 times and every instance is spoken of by Jesus. In the NT, "gehenna" is used of a condition and never of a place.

Hades
This word only occurs in the NT, ten times, and corresponds to the OT word "sheol." Jesus uses the word four times: Matt. 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23. The other six occur in Acts 2:27,31; Rev. 1:18; 6:8; 20:13,14.
It was probably the "subterranean abode of all the dead until the judgment. It was divided into two departments, paradise or Abraham's bosom for the good, and Gehenna or hell for the bad."(2) In particular, in the account of Lazarus and the Rich man of (Luke 16:19-31), it is the place of the conscious dead who are wicked.

Sheol
"The Hebrew word Sheol is probably derived from a root "to make hollow," and was seen as the common receptacle of the dead and in the great many places the word appears in the OT, it is referring to the grave.(3) It is a place and is mentioned in Gen. 37:35; Num. 16:30,33; Psalm 16:10, etc. Sheol has many meanings in scripture: the grave, the underworld, the state of the dead. It was supposed to be below the surface of the earth (Ezek. 31:15,17; Psalm 86:13).

Is Hell Eternal Conscious Torment?

There are some Christian groups and many cults that deny the idea that hell, in the general sense, means eternal, conscious punishment. Some maintain that God's eternal punishment is annihilation, or non-existence. Others say it is temporal and that eventually all will be saved out of hell. Perhaps the most common objection is that a loving God would never punish people in eternal torment. We agree that God is love (1 John 4:8), but He is also just (Neh. 9:32-33; 2 Thess. 1:6), and eternal (Psalm 90:2; 1 Tim. 1:17 ). God punishes the evil doer (Isaiah 11:13) and this punishment will be eternal. But the question remains. Is this eternal punishment conscious or not?
There are verses that can be interpreted to support the idea that the dead are not conscious after death: (Ecc. 9:5 - the dead know nothing(4) and Psalm 146:4 - their thoughts perish, are good examples.) Other verses compare the dead to sleep: Acts 13:36; 1 Cor. 15:1-6; 1 Thess. 4:13, etc. But these latter verses are merely comparing the similarity between the appearance of the dead and the appearance of someone sleeping.

The Dead are Conscious After Death

The wicked descend alive into Sheol
Num. 16:30, "But if the Lord brings about an entirely new thing and the ground opens its mouth and swallows them up with all that is theirs, and they descend alive into Sheol, then you will understand that these men have spurned the Lord . . . 33So they and all that belonged to them went down alive to Sheol; and the earth closed over them, and they perished from the midst of the assembly."

Cast to outer darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth
Matt. 8:12, "but the sons of the kingdom shall be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Those cast into the fire suffer consciously
Matt. 13:41-42, "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, 42and will cast them into the furnace of fire; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” See also Matt. 13:50.

Cast into a tormenting fire
Rev. 14:9-11, "And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, 10he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."” See also, Rev. 21:8.

Hell is a place of eternal fire and punishment

Unquenchable Fire
Matt. 3:12 "And His winnowing fork is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clear His threshing floor; and He will gather His wheat into the barn, but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Fiery Hell
Matt. 5:22, "whoever shall say, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell." See also, Matt. 5:29,30.

Fiery Hell
Matt. 18:8-9, "And if your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the eternal fire. 9"And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out, and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than having two eyes, to be cast into the fiery hell."

Eternal Fire
Matt. 25:41, "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels.

Eternal Punishment
Matt. 25:46, "And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
The word 'eternal' in both places is "aionios" which means 1)without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be; 2)without beginning; 3)without end, never to cease, everlasting. The word 'punishment' is the word kolasis and it means "to punish, with the implication of resulting severe suffering - 'to punish, punishment.'"(5)

Eternal Fire
Jude 7, "Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Lake of Fire
Rev. 20:15, "And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

Luke