Original Sin: A Just Law?

Question

Having a conversation with a good Christian friend of mine - with a literal interpretation of the Bible - we came upon the topic of whether or not punishing a child for a parent's mistake was just or not.

I posed him with this situation:

If the United States government decided that if an adult were to make a mistake (doesn't have to be specific in this situation) then the children or future children of that adult would have to suffer the same punishment - or worse - as the parent has been sentenced to. I asked, if the United States carried out with this law would it be just? His answer was no it would not!

He went on to say that God did not create sin (although I had thought the notion was he created everything) and that there was nothing God could do but follow his own law and that it WAS just because God did not create sin...

Can someone explain further their religious standpoint or maybe a justification God would have for punishing every subsequent human after Adam.

Thanks.

Yes, this friend of mine is a real character. I have resolved not to TRY and get in these religious talks but somehow the topic got to Harry Potter - apparently a book that holds demons in it - and eventually talking about God and how his character is most certainly not just. This guy is the strangest person I've met: he takes a literal interpretation of the Bible yet finds things like black holes and quantum theory interesting. There must be a great struggle in his brain causing much stress to fight the reason vs his religious upbringing and conditioning.

Answer 1

I think your hypothetical points out the complications of not only the doctrine of original sin, but the complications of buying into doctrine of any kind--

Religious doctrines, particularly of the Christian variety, belong to closed philosophical systems (heavily influenced by platonic, aristotlean, and (even some) continental philosophy...). They were products of the intellectual movements of their own times conflated with Biblical traditions. Unfortunately, in our post-enlightenment, hyper-technological society, some of those doctrines (like original sin) don't make sense unless we buy into an entire theological/philosophical pov that is often at odds with what we experience as our own cultural and intellectual contexts.

That being said, it's important to remember that original sin was an attempt to explain why evil exists and where it comes from.

While I don't believe in some sort of doctrine of original sin, I do believe that we as humans have a great capacity for evil and that we contribute to systemic violence through participating in destructive economic and social systems, whether we know it or not. Not only do we inherit this from our forebearers, but for the most part, we add to the problem.

Answer 2

There are so many flaws in your argument that it isn't even funny. Ok, actually it is kinda funny. First, it is obvious that you have no idea what kind of 'punishment' is described when the Bible talks about the sins of the father being visited on the children. As a general rule, God does not give the blessings to the son that were promised to the father. We are not condemned or judged because of those sins, but more correctly, we feel the effects of the punishment given to the father. We would feel the results of the sin, but would never be held guilty of the sin. If this isn't true, then how could God have taken Enoch and Elijah? How could Christ have been born sinless? How could we read in Colossians that God doesn't show favoritism but punishes those who sin. I know you probably don't believe any of these stories, however that is also a bit of a misnomer. You have taken our idea of God, and tried to attack it. So if you want to stick with the God that is proposed in the Bible, then you have to stick with what is says about him as being true, at least until the argument is over or you have proved that (the Bible) wrong. Secondly, this issue is addressed perfectly in the book of Ezekiel. It says "The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him."

However, this does not at all say that God doesn't have the right to punish every human after that. Have you lived a perfect life? Of course not, nobody has, save Jesus Christ. It is not because every father has sinned that every person is condemned (unless they simply ask Christ for forgiveness), but it is because every person has sinned that God can justly punish all who choose not to take his way out.

Answer 3

it has nothing to do with punishing. God is not the author of evil he created them in perfection.we are not born sinners but with a nature to sin, a child doesnt reach an age of reasoning until he can make a choice to do right or wrong, adam and eve now as they were in innocence sin is missing the mark of gods plans for you cant even put that into the term of create sin. it was a choice they made against what god had told them. even if the next generation were offered the same innocence do you think that would have lasted , no. God new this from the beginning and he had from the beginning prepared Christ to offer us the way to be fully redeemed back to himself.

Answer 4

Let's try this piecemeal: Most theologians agree that being born with original sin means that one is born without God's grace which is received at Baptism. - Most theologians? Bandwagon appeal. This does not establish any correctness. God's grace is then imputed at Baptism which brings one into the familial relationship with Christ. - We draw a dotted line to an assumption of grace, not a solid one tying God to our demands. The Bible also says that we are all born with the law written on our hearts which is what the Holy Spirit appeals to when we are brought to faith. - The begging God. Got it. Why or why not is this law not a form of grace received at conception. - We are assumed to be faithful as a result of our baptisms. The law is imputed to, and followed by the church, extending to the children. It does not mean that God is a vending machine, perform the ritual of baptism and out comes grace. Nor does it mean grace is an obligation by God at birth, nor does it mean we get to claim innocence at birth. The only answer left, then, is that original sin is RETAINED while we are called to our baptisms and our dotted lines to salvation through it. That dotted line says you are a prodigal if you fall away, not an outsider. This should make some sense of 1 Peter 3:21. Is it fair to say that the soul is not touched by grace until the law is recognized - You've slipped into "if you will, then I will" again, and God's obligation through a perceived innocence, forgetting all about the existence of original sin. There is no such thing as "slightly" fallen. Either you're on your feet or you're not. which would mean that it is separate from the soul and a part of the body instead and that God's grace unifies the law to the body and soul? - Man has NEVER been saved by law. He has been saved by grace alone, with the church loving His law throughout the ages. There is nothing to separate and bring back together through baptism. This is a non sequiter. Opinions please. This may help to understand the question from my blog: What made me think more deeply about this question was contemplating how the blessed mother of God was saved at conception by our Savior and filled with grace. -- No. Not saved. Overshadowed, by the Holy Spirit. Original sin, yes, condemnation set aside. It may be helpful to relate it to the immaculate conception. -- And it may help to relate grace to Jesus' cousin, who leaped in the womb at the mention of Jesus' name. The Holy Spirit overshadowed the original sin Is that not what happens to us all when we come into the familial relationship with Christ that our emptiness of original sin is replaced by the fullness of God's grace? -- Not in the least. Please use the Bible in considering this issue and no the man-made theology of Calvin. -- Here I stand. I can do no other.

Answer 5

understand that the sin passed on to futur generation (3rd and 4th) are those that have to do with games of a psychological nature. These should be corrected by whatever it takes to stop harnessing the next generation with these really devastating habits that they assume are normal but cause ineffeciency of exestance and cause such things as some of our perversions.

God refrains from interferrance in order to reduce the amount of energy consumed by the perpetuation of this creation. It is for the most part a self sustaining creation.

He gave us the directions we need to live an abundant existance which is full of great construction techniques all we need do is follow them.

but people just leave construction untill the night b4 Christmas and then fail to read the instructions. so we get we we get

Answer 6

Your logic about God creating sin is similar to the idea that if a farmer grows a vegetable that someone else chokes on and then dies from, the farmer is responsible for his death. The idea of the judgment of sin being handed down to future generations I think goes far beyond the idea of retribution. God, Who is love, uses even the logical consequences of sin to bring an individual to the awareness of their need for Him...even others sins.

Answer 7

Original Sin is the genetic defect we all inherited from Adam and Eve. Through this genetic defect we all inherited death -- both physical and spiritual – and were separated from God. Through Jesus Christ, we all have the ability to conquer this genetic defect – sin and death – and be reconnected to God eternally. Paradise was the original state of Adam’s garden on God’s “very good” earth, not millions and millions of years of death, decay, disease, and naturalistic trial and error.

Answer 8

It's not that God is punishing every human after Adam for Adam and Eve's sin... It's that since Adam and Eve sinned - the fact that we are sinful is what was passed along. It's basically in our genes - it's a part of being human at this point.
Romans 5:12 says,"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned."
So sin is spread like a trait passed along from father to son. If you were to say it is a condemnation, then it's not from God, it's a condemnation from Adam and Eve.
Your friend is right that God himself did not create sin. He did however create a way for us to opt out. When he sent his son to die for our sins.
Romans 5:18 continues,"So, then, as through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous for life. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were constituted sinners, likewise also through the obedience of the one [person] many will be constituted righteous."
Meaning - because of Adam, we all have a sinful nature - because of Jesus, we all have the possibility of beating sin and therefor death.
Hebrews 2:14 says (speaking of Jesus)," that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil;"
So it is the Devils fault that we all die - since death is a by-product of sin, then it's Satan the Devils fault that we sin, too.
The fact that we all have life is proof of God's love, not his hatred. You're looking at the glass as half empty - when it's half full. God could have wiped out Adam and Eve at the beginning and started over, but he didn't do that because it wouldn't have proven anything. In the garden of Eden, Satan questioned God's right to rule - his sovereignty. Satan claimed that God was a liar and that Adam and Eve would be better off ruling themselves. God is giving humans time to see where ruling ourselves is getting us. The point is, it's not the punishment of humans that's the question. It's whether or not God has the right as our creator to rule us. How far can we as humans get by ruling ourselves?
So, in God’s judgment of mankind, each one will be judged, not according to the condemnation he received from Adam, but (Revelations 20:12) "individually, according to their deeds".

So it's not a punishment, unless you let it be. Each person has a choice to serve God or not in this lifetime.
It's more like a person who was raised in a trashy trailor park. The father and mother used to have a great life, but had to move to the trailor park because they were both junkies and needed a cheap place to raise their children. Does that mean that their children are condemned to live in a trailor park their whole lives? That's up to the children.

Answer 9

A child isn't punished for their parents sins. There are responsible for their own. In fact, if they died before they reach the age of understanding what sin is, and that Jesus died for them, then they aren't held accountable for it. Even adults as well. I won't pay for my dad's sin. I will pay for my own.

Sin came through Adam. The nature to sin came through Adam because he was the first to sin. We have the nature of disobedience, but aren't responsible for Adam's sin.

Answer 10

We should not question laws that God has made. We should obey them without question! God gave us our minds to decide if we want to sin or not and if we do, it is our fault. God gave Adam and Eve a beautiful garden to live in and told them they could have all the fruit from all the trees, but one. Eve wasn't happy with what she had and took from the forbidden tree, then gave some to Adam and then they were banned from the garden of Eden..And so the ones who came after Adam and Eve inherited the original sin. It doesn't make sense that we should have inherited that sin, but we did and that is why we get baptized. God knows what He is doing, so don't question His will!