For Catholics and Lutherans: Why do you, and the lutherans remove the 2nd commandment?

Question

My family is Lutheran, and the lutheran Caticism does it too. What is the reason other than selling images. The second commandment of exidus is removed and the tenth is split in 2

Sorry, I changed it around and it didnt come out right. In the Lutheran and Catholic Catecisms. The 2nd commandment of "thou shalt not make unto the any graven image, or any likeness of anything... exodus 20:4. this is removed, and the 10th is split in 2. I wondered why?

Answer my question simply, I have a bible, I can count to ten. Less is more, why?

OK, why take out number 2 and give more importance to number 11. By the Catholic message. Its just strange that the one that is so clearly linked to the catholic church is omitted

Answer 1

I'm a Presbyterian but hope that won't put you off reading this answer! I was at a lecture recently with the Ten Commandments as the topic. It was explained that the Catholic church divide the number differently to others. They merge No. 1 and No. 2 together then divide the last one about covetousness into two. Some consider the preamble to the Ten Words to be part of the commands. But the preamble starts with "I am the Lord who... " while the Ten Words start with "You shall not...".

You are right to suspect that the reason has something to do with images! The first command forbids having any other god 'before' Jehovah (in front of him - if there is, worship is invalid and does not go to Jehovah). The second command forbids the worship of idols or false gods. This is distinct, for a reason! Forbidding idolatry in the first commanbd shows the same forbidding of idolatry in the second must mean something different. An image made for a religious reason or purpose is not actually a god but can lead to idolatry, whereas an image of your pet dog is fine, as long as you don't pray to it. If you do, you are likely breaking both the first and the second commands because you have set up another god, and you are effectively bowing down to it. Deuteronomy 4: 15 makes this clear: "Take careful heed to yourselves, for you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire, lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female, the likeness of any beast" etc.

Breaking the first begins the slide into breaking the second. Praying to an image terminates the worship meant for Jehovah. It goes no further than to the image. God will not accept it. Christ's ability to hear and answer prayer is proof of his divinity. The Bible condemns any attempt to contact the dead. Those two factors apply to Catholic images and prayers offered to them, especially to Mary, who is said to mediate the grace of Christ. This is hyper-dulia.

Within 100 years of Catholicism permiting use of images only as memorials (Gregory the Great, 6th C.), they were being used in worship. I hope this is helpful.

Answer 2

Another charge sometimes made by Protestants is that the Catholic Church "hides" the second commandment. This is because in Catholic catechisms, the first commandment is often listed as "You shall have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3), and the second is listed as "You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain." (Ex. 20:7). From this, it is argued that Catholics have deleted the prohibition of idolatry to justify their use of religious statues. But this is false. Catholics simply group the commandments differently from most Protestants.

In Exodus 20:2–17, which gives the Ten Commandments, there are actually fourteen imperative statements. To arrive at Ten Commandments, some statements have to be grouped together, and there is more than one way of doing this. Since, in the ancient world, polytheism and idolatry were always united—idolatry being the outward expression of polytheism—the historic Jewish numbering of the Ten Commandments has always grouped together the imperatives "You shall have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3) and "You shall not make for yourself a graven image" (Ex. 20:4). The historic Catholic numbering follows the Jewish numbering on this point, as does the historic Lutheran numbering. Martin Luther recognized that the imperatives against polytheism and idolatry are two parts of a single command.

Jews and Christians abbreviate the commandments so that they can be remembered using a summary, ten-point formula. For example, Jews, Catholics, and Protestants typically summarize the Sabbath commandment as, "Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy," though the commandment’s actual text takes four verses (Ex. 20:8–11).

When the prohibition of polytheism/idolatry is summarized, Jews, Catholics, and Lutherans abbreviate it as "You shall have no other gods before me." This is no attempt to "hide" the idolatry prohibition (Jews and Lutherans don’t even use statues of saints and angels). It is to make learning the Ten Commandments easier.

The Catholic Church is not dogmatic about how the Ten Commandments are to be numbered, however. The Catechism of the Catholic Church says, "The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the Lutheran confession. The Greek Fathers worked out a slightly different division, which is found in the Orthodox Churches and Reformed communities" (CCC 2066).

Answer 3

It has not been removed. It is considered to be part of the "You shall have no other gods before Me" commandment (which is also how is it reckoned by the Jews; see chart at second link).

-----
>>Answer my question simply, I have a bible, I can count to ten. Less is more, why?<<

Not only are the commandments NOT numbered, God doesn't even say that those listed in Exodus 20:2-17 ARE ten, so how are you counting to ten? And why is your division of the commandments more valid than that of a 2000 year old Church?

Answer 4

What you consider the second commandment, "do not make graven images and worship them" is considered part of the first commandment to Catholics.

If a person is to not have any other gods ahead of God, then it naturally follows that you should not worship idols. The catholics consider the two as the same commandment.

Catholics consider your tenth commandment to be two commandments because the first part of your tenth commandment deals with desires of the flesh and the second part deals with desires of anothers goods. That is why we consider it two commandments.

Answer 5

You have it backwards. The Catholic and Lutherans have always broken the Ten Commandments up this way. It is other Protestant religions who changed the way the commandments are broken up. They came later and decided to make the change.

Answer 6

Catholics do not remove the second commandment. The second commandment is talking about IDOLATRY, not simply making images. If that was the case, all graphic art of any sort would be prohibitted. (Time to get off the computer, I guess.)

Answer 7

Business purposes. Did you know that Mexico's Cardinal, Norberto Rivera Carrera wanted to copyright the Virgen of Guadalupe's image? Money money money money.

Answer 8

http://www.remnantofgod.org/flash/acssmenu.html

CAtholics are the antichrist system

DOnt follow the SUnday churches and get to the truth before its too late

Answer 9

They chose not to honor YHVH so He gave them over to deceiving spirits.

Answer 10

I am having trouble understanding what exactly what you are talking about. Sorry. Please try again Peace