For Jehovah's Witnesses...?

Question

How did the Watchtower know the number of places left for the 144,000 "anointed class" of believers when the organisation proper (i.e. Watchtower Bible & Tract Society) came into being ? Any documented evidence which can be referenced would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for all answers.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Society teach that all the places were filled in 1931 (or 1935) ? Perhaps some JW's could shed some light on this ?

JW's - again, please correct me if I'm wrong...
Keichi says that I am correct when I say that all the "anointed class" places are filled. Therefore, I repeat my question to the JW's - when the Society proper came into being, how did they know how many places had already been filled ? In order for the Society to declare that all the 144,000 places had been filled (regardless of those who might 'fall away'), logic dictates that at some point, they must have known how many places were left. So how ? If you are unable to answer the question, then please say so.
Surely JW's should not be so vague regarding such an important doctrine for the Society ?
Sasi says that they didn't know. Is this true ? Can you offer any evidence to the contrary. If the Society didn't know, then HOW COULD THEY SAY THAT THE PLACES HAD BEEN FILLED ? (Capitals for emphasis).

Illustration -
If I own a very large hotel, and someone comes to me asking for a room, if I reply that there are "no vacancies" then I must have some idea of how many places are or are not vacant, right ? If I don't have some idea, them how can I declare with any confidence, "no vacancies" - make sense ?

Actung Heiss says that JW's never claimed to know how many of the 144,000 were sealed prior to the 1870's. Keiichi says that I was correct in stating that all the positions were filled. Therefore, if the Watchtower stated that at a particular point all the 144,000 positions were filled, how was it possible for them to say this with any confidence if they had no idea how many positions were left at their inception ? For all they know, when the Society proper was established, 143, 999 "anointed class" positions could have been taken. Or just 23 could have been taken, etc...

Answer 1

You need to find out about the Jonadabs! My parents became JWs way back when the Watchtower Society first came out with their new teaching about the limited number going to heaven and everyone else (the Jonadab Class) who were not anointed with the Holy Spirit and who would stay on the earth. Up till then (1935), ALL JWs took the bread and wine at the Lord's supper, but once this new teaching came out there was a bit of confusion. New converts, like my parents, took the teaching to mean they were in a supporting role - supporting the anointed - i.e. Jonadabs. Statistics show that in 1938 73,420 JWs attended this Memorial but only 39,225 partook. This drop in partakers rapidly continued till now there are little over 8,000.

Because JWs believe salvation can be taken away (even from the anointed!) they use this to reason that some have become unfaithful and Jehovah has then chosen replacements, to fill up the 144,000 number. So, to answer your question; they didn't know. They did conveniently discount millions of anointed believers through the centuries from Christ till the 1930s, saying they weren't Christians at all. This gave the impression that after the 1st century A.D., true converts dwindled to a thin red line, leading to the 1870s when God raised up his chosen (Bible Students aka JWs) and the hundreds became thousands, but long before they became a million, this new teaching was in place.

Answer 2

You are correct the positions were filled. However no one is perfect and sometimes someone might do something that would cause him or her to get rejected from the heavenly hope. So those who are removed from the church and also the heavenly kingdom would need to have someone replace their spot. Hence there are modern day members (a few, from the younger generation) of the 144,000 that take part in the memorial of Christ Death and the Heavenly Resurrection.

Side note: Nearly all JWs will NOT be apart of the heavenly hope since the scriptures are clear that the earth was created to live on. - (Matthew 5:5).

It is not meant for us to go to heaven unless a person is selected (from every country around the globe to serve as ambassadors) as the 144,000.

Answer 3

I am not a JW. but they take it from Revelation Chapter 7. which speaks of 144,000 marked with God's seal.
This is Jewish poetic language (12 x 12...the number of tribes and also a special number, multiplied by 1000, implying perfection...not literally 999+1)
If you do take it literally they are all Jews anyhow (12,000 from each tribe) which would exclude most Jehovah's Witnesses..
As more than that number have also claimed to be a part of it, they have a further problem!!

Answer 4

They don't claim to know. If one of the congregation feel that they have a heavenly calling rather than an earthly one then they partake at the passover rather than just observing. The congragations then submit the figures of those partaking to their governing body and these are released in their Year Book. I used to be a JW and a couple of my family members still are.

Answer 5

Jehovah's Witnesses never claimed to know how many of the 144,000 had been "sealed" before the 1870's. Jehovah's Witnesses today do not claim to know how many of the 144,000 still await their heavenly resurrection.

The vast majority of Jehovah's Witnesses expect to enjoy eternal life on a paradise earth, rather than in heaven. Jehovah's Witnesses expect that many thousands of the 144,000 have never set foot in a Kingdom Hall or read 'The Watchtower'.

Jehovah's Witnesses understand the Scriptures to teach that exactly 144,000 humans will join Christ Jesus as kings and priests to administer God's Kingdom (which will soon replace all earthly governments).
(Daniel 2:44) God of heaven will set up a kingdom... It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite
(Revelation 14:1) Lamb [Jesus] standing upon the Mount Zion, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand
(Revelation 20:6) they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and will rule as kings with him

The men and women who make up the 144,000 are selected by God from among two thousand years of Christians. Over whom will they rule? Over the vast majority of mankind, most of whom will have been raised from the dead after Armageddon.
(John 11:23,24) Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”

Hell is NOT someplace/something mankind needs to fear; there is no suffering in the grave. Sometime after the resurrection, death and "hell" will themselves be destroyed.
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol ["hell"]
(Revelation 20:14) And death and Hades ["hell"] were hurled into the lake of fire


Almighty Jehovah God selects those few who have the heavenly calling. Each person "feels" his own hope and each person's hope remains unquestioned by his fellow Christians. Still the vast majority (literally more than 99.9%*) of Jehovah's Witnesses expect an EARTHLY hope, the same hope given to Adam and Eve.
(Genesis 1:28) God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill THE EARTH and subdue it [caps added]
(Genesis 2:17) You must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die [so never eating from that tree means never dying]

Answer 6

The Witness of the Spirit

10 All 144,000 anointed Christians have had absolute evidence that they have God’s spirit. In this regard, Paul wrote: “You received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: ‘Abba, Father!’ The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are God’s children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ, provided we suffer together that we may also be glorified together.” (Romans 8:15-17) Anointed Christians have a filial spirit toward their heavenly Father, a dominant sense of sonship. (Galatians 4:6, 7) They are absolutely certain that they have been begotten by God to spiritual sonship as joint heirs with Christ in the heavenly Kingdom. In this, Jehovah’s holy spirit plays a definite role.

11 Under the influence of God’s holy spirit, the spirit, or dominant attitude, of anointed ones impels them to respond in a positive way to what God’s Word says about the heavenly hope. For instance, when they read what the Scriptures say about Jehovah’s spiritual children, they spontaneously acknowledge that such words apply to them. (1 John 3:2) They know that they have been “baptized into Christ Jesus” and into his death. (Romans 6:3) Their firm conviction is that they are God’s spiritual sons, who will die and be resurrected to heavenly glory, as Jesus was.

12 Being begotten to spiritual sonship is not a cultivated desire. Spirit-begotten ones do not want to go to heaven because of distress over present hardships on earth. (Job 14:1) Rather, Jehovah’s spirit has engendered in truly anointed ones a hope and desire uncommon to humans in general. Such begotten ones know that everlasting life in human perfection on a paradise earth surrounded by a happy family and friends would be wonderful. However, such life is not the principal desire of their hearts. Anointed ones have such a strong heavenly hope that they willingly sacrifice all earthly prospects and attachments.—2 Peter 1:13, 14.

13 The God-given hope of heavenly life is so strong in such ones that their sentiments are like those of Paul, who wrote: “We know that if our earthly house, this tent, should be dissolved, we are to have a building from God, a house not made with hands, everlasting in the heavens. For in this dwelling house we do indeed groan, earnestly desiring to put on the one for us from heaven, so that, having really put it on, we shall not be found naked. In fact, we who are in this tent groan, being weighed down; because we want, not to put it off, but to put on the other, that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now he that produced us for this very thing is God, who gave us the token of what is to come, that is, the spirit.” (2 Corinthians 5:1-5) Paul’s ‘earnest desire’ was to be resurrected to heaven as an immortal spirit creature. Referring to the human body, he used the metaphor of a collapsible tent, a fragile and temporary dwelling compared to a house. Though living on earth in a mortal, fleshly body, Christians who have the spirit as a token of coming heavenly life look forward to “a building from God,” an immortal, incorruptible spirit body. (1 Corinthians 15:50-53) Like Paul, they can earnestly say: “We are of good courage and are well pleased rather to become absent from the [human] body and to make our home [in heaven] with the Lord.”—2 Corinthians 5:8.

15 The “many sons” Jehovah purposed to ‘bring to glory’ have also been taken individually into the covenant for a heavenly Kingdom. Regarding this covenant between himself and his footstep followers, Jesus said: “You are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials; and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Luke 22:28-30) The Kingdom covenant was inaugurated when Jesus’ disciples were anointed with holy spirit at Pentecost 33 C.E. That covenant remains operative between Christ and his associate kings forever. (Revelation 22:5) So, then, spirit-begotten Christians are positive that they are in the new covenant and in the covenant for the Kingdom. At observances of the Lord’s Evening Meal, therefore, only the relatively few remaining anointed ones yet on the earth partake of the bread, representing Jesus’ sinless human body, and the wine, signifying his perfect blood poured out in death and validating the new covenant.—1 Corinthians 11:23-26; see The Watchtower, February 1, 1989, pages 17-20.

even annoined men are human and fall short and could sin to the point of falling away.thus they would be replaced by Jehovah and his son Jesus.

Answer 7

Salvation is a free gift, but it is given to those who faith moves them to action. What is the definition of hypocrite?

Just because a person’s name is in the book of life, know that it can be erased prior to their actually receiving the reward. (Rev 3:5)

Phil 4:3 has to also agree with Phil 3:12-14, 18,19 That is what context means.

(Philippians 3:12-14) 12 Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pursuing to see if I may also lay hold on that for which I have also been laid hold on by Christ Jesus. 13 Brothers, I do not yet consider myself as having laid hold on [it]; but there is one thing about it: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead, 14 I am pursuing down toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.

(Philippians 3:18-19) 18 For there are many, I used to mention them often but now I mention them also with weeping, who are walking as the enemies of the torture stake of the Christ, 19 and their finish is destruction, and their god is their belly, and their glory consists in their shame, and they have their minds upon things on the earth.

(Revelation 3:1-5) ‘I know your deeds, that you have the name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 Become watchful, and strengthen the things remaining that were ready to die, for I have not found your deeds fully performed before my God. 3 Therefore, continue mindful of how you have received and how you heard, and go on keeping [it], and repent. Certainly unless you wake up, I shall come as a thief, and you will not know at all at what hour I shall come upon you.
4 “‘Nevertheless, you do have a few names in Sar´dis that did not defile their outer garments, and they shall walk with me in white ones, because they are worthy5 He that conquers will thus be arrayed in white outer garments; and I will by no means blot out his name from the book of life, but I will make acknowledgment of his name before my Father and before his angels. (NASB says will not ‘erase’ his name from the book of life)

Just because a person’s name is written, remember it can also be erased . It doesn’t become permanent until they actually have received the reward, when the upward calling is a reality when they go from being declared righteous and perfect, to actually being righteous and perfect.

Salvation is based on all of us enduring to the end, “conquering” all the attacks and tests that Satan and our imperfection flesh throw at us.

If we don’t conquer, if we succumb to Satan we will not be saved, our names will come off the book of life. (1 Cor 9:27, Paul knew what he was writing about)

We are not alone in this battle, we have Jehovah, his Son, and his spirit to help us, and as long as we remain faithful we have hope. Greek term el•pis´ (hope) is “expectation of good.”

If we have already received the reward, then we don’t need hope toward God.

(1 Corinthians 13:13) 13 Now, however, there remain faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. (Love is greater than faith,)

(Romans 5:1-5) 5 Therefore, now that we have been declared righteous as a result of faith, let us enjoy peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have gained our approach by faith into this undeserved kindness in which we now stand; and let us exult, based on hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but let us exult while in tribulations, since we know that tribulation produces endurance; 4 endurance, in turn, an approved condition; the approved condition, in turn, hope, 5 and the hope does not lead to disappointment; because the love of God has been poured out into our hearts through the holy spirit, which was given us.

Being declared righteous is a promise of the reward, so we can have hope of salvation. Not that we are saved.

(Romans 2:6-11) 6 And he will render to each one according to his works: 7 everlasting life to those who are seeking glory and honor and incorruptibleness by endurance in work that is good; 8 however, for those who are contentious and who disobey the truth but obey unrighteousness there will be wrath and anger, 9 tribulation and distress, upon the soul of every man who works what is injurious, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who works what is good, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.

1 Cor 3:14, 15 has to agree with the rest of the book of Corinthians, and then the remaining books of the bible.

(1 Corinthians 3:8) . . ., but each [person] will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

(1 Corinthians 4:4) 4 For I am not conscious of anything against myself. Yet by this I am not proved righteous, but he that examines me is Jehovah.

(1 Corinthians 5:9-13) 9 In my letter I wrote YOU to quit mixing in company with fornicators, 10 not [meaning] entirely with the fornicators of this world or the greedy persons and extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, YOU would actually have to get out of the world. 11 But now I am writing YOU to quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked [man] from among yourselves.”

(1 Corinthians 10:1-12) 10 Now I do not want YOU to be ignorant, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea 2 and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock-mass that followed them, and that rock-mass meant the Christ. 5 Nevertheless, on most of them God did not express his approval, for they were laid low in the wilderness. 6 Now these things became our examples, for us not to be persons desiring injurious things, even as they desired them. 7 Neither become idolaters, as some of them did; just as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink, and they got up to have a good time.” 8 Neither let us practice fornication, as some of them committed fornication, only to fall, twenty-three thousand [of them] in one day. 9 Neither let us put Jehovah to the test, as some of them put [him] to the test, only to perish by the serpents. 10 Neither be murmurers, just as some of them murmured, only to perish by the destroyer. 11 Now these things went on befalling them as examples, and they were written for a warning to us upon whom the ends of the systems of things have arrived. 12 Consequently let him that thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall.


(1 Corinthians 13:1-3) 13 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a sounding [piece of] brass or a clashing cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophesying and am acquainted with all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to transplant mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 And if I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body, that I may boast, but do not have love, I am not profited at all.

(Hebrews 6:4-8) 4 For it is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, 5 and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, 6 but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame. 7 For example, the ground that drinks in the rain which often comes upon it, and that then brings forth vegetation suitable to those for whom it is also cultivated, receives in return a blessing from God. 8 But if it produces thorns and thistles, it is rejected and is near to being cursed; and it ends up with being burned.

(Hebrews 6:10-12) 10 For God is not unrighteous so as to forget YOUR work and the love YOU showed for his name, in that YOU have ministered to the holy ones and continue ministering. 11 But we desire each one of YOU to show the same industriousness so as to have the full assurance of the hope down to the end, 12 in order that YOU may not become sluggish, but be imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

(Hebrews 10:36-39) 36 For YOU have need of endurance, in order that, after YOU have done the will of God, YOU may receive the [fulfillment of the] promise. 37 For yet “a very little while,” and “he who is coming will arrive and will not delay.” 38 “But my righteous one will live by reason of faith,” and, “if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.” 39 Now we are not the sort that shrink back to destruction, but the sort that have faith to the preserving alive of the soul.

(2 Peter 2:20-22) 20 Certainly if, after having escaped from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, the final conditions have become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it accurately to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 The saying of the true proverb has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.”

(Revelation 22:12) 12 “‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to render to each one as his work is.. . .

So as in Paul's day, if an anointed Christian fails to remain in the faith, his name is erased from the book of life.