Did Jesus say "The Father is greater than I" or not?

Question

when Christ came up out of the water, a voice spoke from heaven,"This is my son, the beloved, whom I have approved". Matt 3:17

How can it be reasoned out that Jesus is therefore God?

There are scriptures written where God is shown that He does not dwell in hand-made houses as Jesus did--
1 Kings 8:27 " But will God truly dwell upon the earth? Look! The heavens, yes, the heaven of the heavens cannot contain you; how much less then, this house that I have built!"

Would it be reasonable then to say that when the Bible talks of God walking in the garden that it's His angelic messengers who do His perfect will and therefore it is the angels, God's heavenly sons who come down from heaven just as they appeared to Abraham also?

Answer 1

{Note: you do have 2 good answers before Sternchen above}
Yes Jesus said that!

JOHN 14:28 "IF YE LOVED ME, YE WOULD REJOICE, BECAUSE I SAID , I GO UNTO THE FATHER: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I."
JOHN 10:29 = "My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."

PHIL.2:5-8 = "Let this mind in you which was also in Christ Jesus. Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God. But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man humbled himself by becoming obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."
COL.1:15-17 = "And He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn before all creation. For by him were all things were created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities, or powers: all things have been created by him and for him: and he is before all things, and by all things consist."
COL.2:9 = "For in him dwelleth all the fullness of of the Godhead bodily."
HEB.1:5 = "For unto which of the angels said he at any time. Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?"

Not all christians believe in the TRINITY.
http://www.mindspring.com/~anthonybuzzard/trinity.htm
http://anthonybuzzard.home.mindspring.com/whoisjesus.htm#21
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1JOHN 4:1 = "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because MANY FALSE PROPHETS are gone out into the world."
(In reference to the crowd = Matt.7:13; 24:24; some departing from the faith = Acts 20:29-30)false prophets are gone out into the world."

PROVERBS 28:11 = "The rich man is wise in his own conceit; but the poor that hath understanding searcheth him out."
{conceit = Prov.26:5; Rom.11:25; 12:16}
(In reference to Heb.5:14= "knowing good and evil"; 1Thess.5:21= "prove all things")

TRINITY is defined as "A three-fold personality existing in one divine being or substance; the union in one God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three infinite co-equal, co-eternal persons as; one God in three persons."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

The Trinity Doctrine came from paganism.
(Pagan means no religious beliefs; in the 1984 New Concise Webster's Dictionary--Pagan defined : "A heathen; one having no religious beliefs")
http://www.thunderministries.com/Beast/Apostasy.html
http://www.sabbatarian.com/Paganism/HecateTrinity.html
http://www.cornerstone1.org/trinity1.htm
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=140
http://mikeblume.com/pagantr.htm

Most of the majority(Matt.7:13) leads people away from the Truth.

(KJV BIBLE)There are 3 that protestants claim about the trinity; they're JOHN 14 & 15 and 1JOHN 5:7. To start out 1JOHN 5:7 was never in any of the inspired Greek manuscripts; so this knocks out one. As for John 14 & 15; the Greek word for "helper" is paracletos; one who helps inwhich points to the Holy spirit. In Greek, the word "He" is neuter such as "hand" is feminine whether it is a woman's hand or male's hand. As for the word "paracletos" it is masculine and always require a masculine pronoun. This however doesn't prove personhood as you've noticed.
But as you've noticed, these texts don't prove Jesus is God or the Holy Spirit.
I don't believe in the TRINITY! The Bible texts that I'm going to mention contradict the Trinity teaching.
MATT.12:32 "AND WHOSOEVER SPEAKETH A WORD AGAINST THE SON OF MAN, IT SHALL BE FORGIVEN HIM: BUT WHOSOEVER SPEAKETH AGAINST THE HOLY GHOST, IT SHALL NOT BE FORGIVEN HIM, NEITHER IN THIS WORLD, NEITHER IN THE WORLD TO COME."
JOHN 14:28 "IF YE LOVED ME, YE WOULD REJOICE, BECAUSE I SAID , I GO UNTO THE FATHER: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I."
1COR.11:3 "BUT I WOULD HAVE YOU KNOW THAT THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN IS CHRIST; & THE HEAD OF THE WOMAN IS THE MAN; AND THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD."
LUKE 18:19 "AND JESUS SAID UNTO HIM, WHY CALLEST THOU ME GOOD? NONE IS GOOD, SAVE ONE, THAT IS, GOD."
****SEVERAL OTHER TEXTS SAY THERE'S ONLY TWO PERSONS:
1COR.1:3; 8:6; 1TIM.1:2; 2:5; GAL.1:3; PHILIPP.1:2; ROM.1:7; 2COR.1:2-3; 1THESS.1:1; 2THESS.1:2; 2TIM.1:2; PHILEMON 1:3; 1PETER 1:3; 2PETER 1:2; 1JOHN 1:3; 2JOHN 1:3.

Now touching on the HOLY SPIRIT; the Holy Spirit is a power(Luke 1:35= "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the "Son of God.") where God and Jesus make their presence known in the hearts and minds of believers(1John 3:24 = "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."). The believers of god and Jesus will have this love poured on them (Rom.5:5 = "And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given to us.") It will teach them understanding and wisdom of God's Word (John 14:16,17,20,23,26 = "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. At that day ye shall know that I am in the Father, and ye in me, and I in you. Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.") Jesus had the Holy Spirit in him when he made the lame walk and the deaf to hear and etc.(Luke 5:15-17) God works in our minds to give us stength to overcome (Genesis 6:3 = "And the Lord said, my Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.") Other texts are: John 7:38-39; Rom.8:11,13-14,16 and Psalm 104:30.

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Another text that Trinitarians use to say Jesus is the same being as God is John 10:30.
Well many confuse this text in John 10:30 to say Jesus and God are one and the same person; but this text doesn't mean that.
Go back to verse 29; doesn't it say that Jesus's Father is greater than him. In fact what does Jesus/Bible tell us in these texts; doesn't it say that Jesus and God are seperate people?

JOHN 14:28 = "YE HAVE HEARD HOW I SAID UNTO YOU, I GO AWAY, AND COME AGAIN UNTO YOU. IF YE LOVED ME, YE WOULD REJOICE, BECAUSE I SAID, I GO UNTO THE FATHER: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I."

JOHN 20:17 = "JESUS SAID UNTO HER, TOUCH ME NOT; FOR I AM NOT ASCENDED TO MY FATHER: BUT GO TO MY BRETHREN, AND SAY TO THEM, I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, AND YOUR FATHER; AND TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD."

1COR.11:3 "BUT I WOULD HAVE YOU KNOW THAT THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN IS CHRIST; & THE HEAD OF THE WOMAN IS THE MAN; AND THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD."

LUKE 18:19 "AND JESUS SAID UNTO HIM, WHY CALLEST THOU ME GOOD? NONE IS GOOD, SAVE ONE, THAT IS, GOD."

MATT.19:17 = "AND HE SAID UNTO HIM, WHY CALLEST THOU ME GOOD? THERE IS NONE GOOD BUT ONE, THAT IS, GOD: BUT IF THOU WILT ENTER INTO LIFE, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS."

****SEVERAL OTHER TEXTS SAY THERE'S ONLY TWO PERSONS:
1COR.1:3; 8:6; 1TIM.1:2; 2:5; GAL.1:3; PHILIPP.1:2; ROM.1:7; 2COR.1:2-3; 1THESS.1:1; 2THESS.1:2; 2TIM.1:2; PHILEMON 1:3; 1PETER 1:3; 2PETER 1:2; 1JOHN 1:3; 2JOHN 1:3.

So what does John 10:30 really means--when it says "I and my Father are one?" Well let's go further down to John 10:38. Doesn't it tell us that God and Jesus are alike and similar in actions, features, and etc? Take a Father with his son or a Mother with her daughter; do they have characteristics like you; but does that mean they're you? No of course not; they're seperate, but are alike in different ways.

JOHN 10:38 = "BUT IF I DO, THOUGH YE BELIEVE NOT ME, BELIEVE THE WORKS: THAT YE MAY KNOW, AND BELIEVE, THAT THE FATHER IS IN ME, AND I IN HIM."

JOHN 5:19-20 = "THEN, ANSWERED JESUS AND SAID UNTO THEM, VERILY, VERILY, I SAY UNTO YOU, THE SON CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, BUT WHAT HE SEETH THE FATHER DO: FOR WHAT THINGS SOEVER HE DOETH, THESE ALSO DOETH THE SON LIKEWISE. FOR THE FATHER LOVETH THE SON, AND SHEWETH HIM ALL THINGS THAT HIMSELF DOETH: AND HE WILL SHEW HIM GREATER WORKS THAN THESE, THAT YE MAY MARVEL."

JOHN 17:21-22 = "THAT THEY ALL MAY BE ONE; AS THOU, FATHER, ART IN ME, AND I IN THEE, THAT THEY ALSO MAY BE ONE IN US: THAT THE WORLD MAY BELIEVE THAT THOU HAS SENT ME. AND THE GLORY WHICH THOU GAVEST ME I HAVE GIVEN THEM; THAT THEY MAY BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE."

JOHN 14:10-11 = "BELIEVEST THOU NOT THAT I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME? THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK UNTO YOU I SPEAK OF NOT MYSELF: BUT THE FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS. BELIEVE ME THAT I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME: OR ELSE BELIEVE ME FOR THE VERY WORKS' SAKE."

JOHN 5:36 = "BUT I HAVE A GREATER WITNESS THAN THAT OF JOHN: FOR THE WORKS WHICH THE FATHER HATH GIVEN ME TO FINISH, THE SAME WORKS THAT I DO, BEAR WITNESS OF ME, THAT THE FATHER HATH SENT ME."

JOHN 10:25 = "JESUS ANSWERED THEM, I TOLD YOU, AND YOU BELIEVED NOT: THE WORKS THAT I DO IN MY FATHER'S NAME, THEY BEAR WITNESS OF ME."

Also many others such as:
JOHN 8:28,42,49-50,54; 5:19-20,26-27,30; 6:38,57
MATT.20:23

Jesus Christ came here on earth to show people who God is by his actions and features. So if we knew Jesus in our heart; we would know God because Jesus showed us when he was on earth. (JOHN 17:3)
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Is Jesus God?
The Answer is definately "NO".

Is Jesus God?
Jesus Christ is not God {he was figuratively God(Logos) in the Old Testament; the spokesperson for God} = John 1:1. So does the Bible say Jesus is God; no it says that Jesus is the son of God = 1John 4:15.
References of the devil or demons calling Jesus Son of God:
Matthew 4:3
Matthew 4:6,
Matthew 8:29
Mark 3:11
Luke 4:3
Luke 4:9
Luke 4:41

References to humans calling Jesus Son of God:
Matthew 14:33
Matthew 27:54
Mark 1:1
Mark 15:39
John 1:34
John 1:49
John 11:27
John 20:31
Acts 9:20
Romans 1:4
2 Corinthians 1:19
Galatians 2:20
Hebrews 4:14
Hebrews 6:6
Hebrews 7:3
Hebrews 10:29
1 John 3:8
1 John 4:15
1 John 5:1
1 John 5:5
1 John 5:10
1 John 5:13
1 John 5:20
Matthew 14:33
Revelation 2:18

Jesus referring to himself as the Son of God:
John 3:18
John 5:25
John 10:36
John 11:4
http://www.lcg.org/cgi-bin/tw/magazine/tw-mag.cgi?category=Magazine3&item=1103832467
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To understand this better; most people say Jesus is God; how can this be? What happened to Jesus then, if Jesus is God or what happened to God if Jesus is God?
1John 2:22-24.

In reference to Old Testament Isaiah 9:6; most people assume in this passage that it says Jesus is God. If they searched in the Hebrew writings; they would know what Isaiah 9:6 is really talking about.
http://www.ccg.org/english/s/p224.html
http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/theology/deity/Isaiah9_6.html
http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=66


Hosea 11:9 = "...: for I am God and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter in the city."
Numbers 23:19 = "God is not a man; that he should lie: neither the son of man, that he should repent..."
Acts 2:22 = "Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you..."

Now from these two texts; it tells us there's two persons: one is God and one is Jesus the son of God; a man approved of God. Now as we have determined Jesus can't be God.

The Bible contradicts the Trinity teaching over and over. Now if Jesus was a trinity (which is unbiblical), that would mean he didn't come fully in the flesh = 1John 4:3.
How can Jesus be God and talk to himself? Also if Jesus was God on the earth; that would mean he was a spirit; we know this wasn't true because of 1John 4:2-3 and 2Jn.1:7.
http://family.webshots.com/photo/1472651266051497771QlfGdY

Is God really a TRINITY?
http://lcg.org/search/search.php?query=IS+THERE+A+TRINITY&%24results_per_page=10&search=1
http://www.lcg.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104363708

Answer 2

Praising Father Jehovah Elohim ( Genesis 2:4-25) The Eternal Creator, His Son as King of kings and Lord of lords ( Daniel 2:47; Revelation 17:14;19:16) The Lord Jesus Christ as second member of Godhead, and Third member of Godhead ( Romans 1:20; Col 2:8-10; Acts 17:29) Holy Spirit ( Ghost) Jesus said in John 14:6 I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man may come unto the Father except by Me. Romans 10:9 If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus Christ, and believe in thy heart, that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. John 15:16 Please 2 Timothy 2:15 read for yourself. Have a Blessed one Remember Jesus loves you and repent from your sins ( 1 John 1:1-10; Psalms 50-53; Reveelation 2-3) I worship all Three honestly We Just need Jesus as way to Father God in Third Heaven2 Cor 12:2 I pray this adequately answers this most excellent question Praise Lord Jesus Christ

Answer 3

Go back and read the verses before and after. The disciple were complaining because Jesus said He was going away. The verse you stated in the topic, you didn't finish. Jesus says in John 14:28 " You have heard me say, I am going away and I am coming back to you. If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater thank I."

Jesus is saying that He is returning to the glory that is rightfully His, and if the disciples really know who He is like they claim they do, and love Him the way they should, they should be more than willing to let Him go back to where He is greater also.

John 17:5 "Glorify me with the glory that I had with the Father before the world began"

Not the had, which means Jesus relinquished His glory to come to earth, which would make the Father greater.

Answer 4

No, the Spirit of God was in the garden with adam and eve (that is exactly what the scripture say's). Because God will take no part in sin, but loved the world so much, he sent his son "Jesus" in human form so he could experience ALL temptations that man was commiting without sinning ( that way Jesus would be the perfect sacrifice). Man could not keep the mosiac laws and God refused to take anymore animal sacrifices ( thats why He sent Jesus- who is God in the flesh as a sacrifice ONCE for ALL

Answer 5

David Sereda wrote a book called Singularity. It's concepts include the idea that there is a place or state of pure good where everything and everytime is singular (one). Evil or even duality can not exist there. Could it be that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit dwell there - heaven?

I'm a spiritual Christian, but I can respect anyone rebuking my religiousness or strict observance of doctrine.

David used the idea to talk about how ufos could travel anywhere within zero time, but the idea of the Singularity holds even more light for religion I feel. I have a copy...it's worth checking out. Just pray about it first - it's not a scripture study that's for sure.

Answer 6

Jesus said the Father was greater than He not because Jesus is not God, but because Jesus was also a man and as a man he was in a lower position. He was ". . . made for a little while lower than the angels . . ." (Heb. 2:9). Also in Phil. 2:5-8, it says that Jesus "emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men . . ."

Jesus has two natures. Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was merely acknowledging the fact that He was also a man. Jesus is both God and man. As a man, he was in a lesser position than the Father. He had added to Himself human nature (Col. 2:9). He became a man to die for people.

A comparison can be found in the marriage relationship. Biblically, a husband is greater in position and authority than his wife. But, he is no different in nature and he is not better than she. They share the same nature, being human, and they work together by love.

So, Jesus was not denying that He was God. He was simply acknowledging that He was also a man and as a man, he was subject to the laws of God so that He might redeem those who were under the law; namely, sinners (Gal. 4:4-5).

Answer 7

In John 14:28 "....If you loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." Jesus was speaking at a time when he had done as stated at Philippians 2:6-7; "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" being "greater than I." The Son had even become "lower than the angels," in order to act as the Saviour of mankind (Hebrew 2:9). Will like to go through the rest of the scriptures that you posed, but not enough time. However, you can email me if you like to hear the rest of it. Love, be bless.

Answer 8

"Have this mind in you which was also in Christ Jesus.
Who, although He existed in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God something to be held onto,
but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant,
and being made in the likeness of men,
and being found in appearance as a man,
He humbled Himself by becoming obedient,
to the point of death,
even death on a cross." (Philippians 2:5-8)

"And He is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn before all creation.
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on the earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities - all things have been created by Him and for Him.
And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." (Colossians 1:15-17)
"For in Him, all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,"
(Colossians 2:9)
"For to which of the angels did He ever say: "You are My Son, today I have begotten You?" (Hebrews 1:5)

Answer 9

Yes he did say that. Jesus was 100 % Man and 100% God. He prayed to God as a Man, he called him Father, he did Miracles with the help of the Father, as a Man. He died as a Man.
He is God who was with the Father from the beginning......before Abraham was, Iam...., he is the Word of God which became flesh, he is the one that returns at the end of time to judge all people

Answer 10

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God and the Word WAS GOD.... vs 14 And the WORD BECAME FLESH and made His dwelling among us.

Hebrews 2:9But we see Jesus, WHO WAS MADE A LITTLE LOWER THAN ANGELS, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

Do you follow yet?

Answer 11

I believe it was the council of Nice around 336 or 338 A.D. that put the bible together and decided that we must believe that Jesus is God. Along with other things taught today.

Anyone who reads the bible can see all the teachings that goes against scripture.