Battle of the undefeated heavyweights - Marciano vs. Valuev?

Question

I had an Email exchange with an ignorant schmuck recently, who was another in the long line of Rocky Marciano cheerleaders that insists that Marciano was the greatest heavyweight that ever lived, because he was unbeaten.
My response was that by that moron logic, current WBA champ Nicolay Valuev is as good as Marciano was, because he's unbeaten, too.
That got me to thinking - who would win a hypothetical match-up?
Guess what? I think Valuev beats him. Valuev is just too damn big.
There's just no way a 189 pound man, with a 67" reach, standing at 5'11 inches tall would be able to reach, let alone beat, a man that towers over him at 7 ft, outreaches him at 80" and outweighs him by 139 pounds at 328.
Am I wrong? If I am, tell me why.

My mistake, according to boxrec, Marciano stood at 5'10. Even worse for him.

Tyson in his prime could have gotten the trick done as he had blinding speed, great boxing skill and power second only to Foreman's. He's also a naturally bigger man than Marciano was. By about thirty pounds.
Marciano wasn't nearly as good as the passage of time has made him seem. Tune into Classic Sports one day and actually see Marciano fight; slow, flatfooted, crude and throwing one clubbing punch at a time. He was in actuality a very well managed club fighter, nothing more.
This myth and romance has built up around him because he was unbeaten (against who?) and more importantly, white.
Valuev is not an unskilled boxer. No all-time great, by any means, but he definitely has skill, can punch a little bit and is surprisingly balanced and light on his feet for such a big man.

smitty - two things, my friend, you cannot compare Primo Carnera to Valuev. Valuev is a seriously trained athlete, whereas Carnera was a mob managed joke.
Also, you can't compare UFC fighters to boxers. Two different sports. Boxing having much stricter rules of engagement.
Take note, also, that today UFC has, and needs, weight divisions, because the sport has advanced so much that the 'size of the fight in the dog' doesn't cut it there anymore.

Brent and everyone else - I didn't expect anyone to agree with me on this one. Thought I'd throw it out there, anyway.

Answer 1

I know what you mean by Rocky fans thinking he was the best ever. He was the best of this era (his fight record can back this), but certainly he we would fall short in other eras. Then again it's not like he was a third rate fighter in any era either.

Rocky was a bad MOFO with super endurance and heart.

To the question of who would win between Marciano and Valuev, we have to note a couple of factors.

Styles make fights:

Rocky was a crouching/swarming fighter who brought with him a
dynamite right and good left hook. He (like Dempsey, Frazier, and Tyson) pushed the pace and pressured the heck out of their opponents. In his era of smaller heavyweights, he was able to have his way with slick fighters like Charles and Walcott. With his victories though, his crouch style led to him being hit in the face causing many cuts/breaks. This is something all fighters who fight from a crouch are subject to.

Valuev for this era (perhaps the worst) of heavyweights is pretty
good. He knows how to use his size to his advantage and moves decently for being so big. With these skills he has managed to remain undefeated against less skilled and athletic fighters than that of Rocky's era.

What era/rules does this fight take place?

In Rocky's era fights weren't stopped as fast as they would in this era. Add an extra 3 rounds as well to the mix.

Verdict:

In a fight taking place today with today's rules Valuev would most likely win via TKO via a cut or broken nose. Rocky would do fine as far as I am concerned, and would dominate...but Valuev's size and power cannot be denied. Skill does not always conquer size.

In a fight taking place in the 50's...Rocky takes the fight. He would be beaten to a pulp, but he would down the big man inside of 10 rounds. No contest.

Answer 2

Rocky Marciano would have literally destroyed this big freak much the way Baer destroyed Carnera many years ago. Marciano had amazing stamina and endurance and had lethal power in either hand. Marciano would have got inside the reach of the big man and tore holes in his rib cage. This would have been a masacre and Marciano would have knocked him out within 5 rounds. Just about anyone that Rocky fought and beat would have beat Valuev including Walcott, Charles, Moore, La Starza and even an older Joe Louis. The guy trained by running about 15 miles a day and had a regiman that no fighter before or since has equaled. There was a reason that Marciano was undefeated and one of the greatest of all time. It's alright if people don't think he would have beaten Ali as Ali was great, but please don't compare the Rock to this guy or any of the others.

Answer 3

I don't think height at the heavyweight level makes much difference because if that were true, then how come Valuev is the first champ over 6'6? MIke Tyson at 5'10 beat people 6'3 and 6'4 with one punch. Frasier was only 5'10 also. Boxing isn't sumo wrestling.

Reach is an advantage when throwing a jab only. It only makes a difference when speed is equal - if the short guy is faster, then reach advantage is gone.

I think Rock would beat Valuev without too much trouble. Everyone knows Valuev lost to Jhonny Ruiz but was given the win because boxing was tired of Ruiz and Valuev would make more money and has more fans.

Tough to say Rocky is the best heavyweight ever, I would say Ali is the best, but according to his movie, after one of his oppents died in the ring, people say Rocky never hit anyone at 100% because he didn't want anyone to die.

Answer 4

ROCCO WINS IN RECORD TIME WITH A 1ST RD KO. THIS IS HOW IT SOUNDS TIIIMMM-BBEEERRR!!!!!!!

SIZE DOESN'T MATTER GO BACK AND WATCH SOME OLD UFC FIGHTS BEFORE THEY HAD WEIGHT CLASSIFICATION.
HE WILL SEE LITTLE MEN KO'ING GIANTS.

DOES ANYONE REMEMBER PRIMO CANERA? HE WAS ONE OF THE TALLEST AND HEAVIEST CHAMPIONS. HE WAS KO'ED BY BAER, LOUIS, L. MUSINA, J. ZUPIN AND L. HAYES[2] ( THE LAST 3 FIGHTERS ARE ALL NOBODIES).

IT ISN'T THE SIZE OF THE DOG, IT IS THE SIZE OF THE FIGHT IN THE DOG.

ANYONE THINKING THAT VALUEV WOULD SURVIVE (NOT GET KO'ED) A BOUT WITH ROCCO, THAT IS THE WORST OPINION SINCE PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT THE WORLD WAS FLAT.

EDIT:
THIS FACT IS NOT OPINION. VALUEV COULD NOT BEAT ANY OF THESE FIGHTERS.
ALI
LOUIS
ROCCO
J. JOHNSON
HOLMES
DEMPSEY
FOREMAN
LISTON
FRAZIER
WALCOTT
CHARLES
HOLYFIELD
TUNNEY
L. LEWIS
TYSON

EDIT: THE SIZE OF THE FIGHT IN THE DOG WILL NEVER CHANGE. HEART AND WILL COME FROM WITHIN AND THEY HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ADVANCES IN SPORTS OR HUMAN BEINGS. IF YA DON'T KNOW YA BETTER ASK SOMEBODY.

Answer 5

I am sorry to disagree , but Marciano had boxing skills , something Valuev does not and as soon as his people stop having him fight cupcakes we we soon see the giant fall , and to answer your question Marciano would have chopped him down like a big oak tree by going to the body , how do you stop a slow man that has a longer reach ? you get inside his reach and pound away !

Answer 6

So I guess you don't think Mike Tyson in his prime could have beat him either.

With your logic Valuev is unbeatable.

Valuev is nothing more than a blown up amatuer. Watch how Frazier got inside Ali's jab for instance.

Size isn't everything in boxing. Hand speed, defense, conditioning, foot speed, ring savy, punching ability, ability to take a punch, stamina, etc., none of which Valuev has.

Marciano would knock him out after tiring him out, and hitting him with body shots and upper cuts. Not even close.

Answer 7

Brad gotta go with toughguy and Smitty on this one. Agree to disagree without malice or name calling. Very refreshing. a_p_ and all others of the same ilk, I hope you're reading this. Good question Brad.
Smitty I hope you meant Valuev couldn't beat those fighters you listed.

Answer 8

Rocky Marciano by KO in 3. It will take 3 rounds to chop down the tree but it will fall.

Answer 9

the russain.