Atheist can we agree with this statement?

Question

Something cannot come from nothing so something was.
So something has to be eternal in origin.

I didnt say it was God yet. so chill

he didn't poof out, something has to be eternal.

so what are you exaclty saying, that one day their was no matter, and the next their was?

DID YOU EVER READ THE LAWS OF THE UNIVERSE?
ENERGY CANNOT BE CREATED NOR DESTROYED?
HOW ABOUT YOU STOP MAKING UP FANTASY SCIENCE.

Answer 1

It's the old chicken egg argument- How can your argument for creationism be the same as your argument against non creationist believers. I just don't understand being able to justify something with the same argument you use against the other side based on the writings of man (who wasn't there in the begining by either side of the argument)

Answer 2

Claim CE440:
Cosmologists cannot explain where space, time, energy, and the laws of physics came from.
Source:
Brown, Walt, 1995. In the Beginning: Compelling evidence for creation and the Flood. Phoenix, AZ: Center for Scientific Creation, p. 20.
Response:

1. Some questions are harder to answer than others. But although we do not have a full understanding of the origin of the universe, we are not completely in the dark. We know, for example, that space comes from the expansion of the universe. The total energy of the universe may be zero. Cosmologists have hypotheses for the other questions that are consistent with observations (Hawking 2001). For example, it is possible that there is more than one dimension of time, the other dimension being unbounded, so there is no overall origin of time. Another possibility is that the universe is in an eternal cycle without beginning or end. Each big bang might end in a big crunch to start a new cycle (Steinhardt and Turok 2002) or at long intervals, our universe collides with a mirror universe, creating the universe anew (Seife 2002).

One should keep in mind that our experiences in everyday life are poor preparation for the extreme and bizarre conditions one encounters in cosmology. The stuff cosmologists deal with is very hard to understand. To reject it because of that, though, would be to retreat into the argument from incredulity.

2. Creationists cannot explain origins at all. Saying "God did it" is not an explanation, because it is not tied to any objective evidence. It does not rule out any possibility or even any impossibility. It does not address questions of "how" and "why," and it raises questions such as "which God?" and "how did God originate?" In the explaining game, cosmologists are far out in front.

References:

1. Hawking, Stephen, 2001. The Universe in a Nutshell. New York: Bantam.
2. Seife, Charles, 2002. Eternal-universe idea comes full circle. Science 296: 639.
3. Steinhardt, P. J. and N. Turok, 2002. A cyclic model of the universe. Science 296: 1436-1439.

Further Reading:
Hawking, Stephen, 1988. A Brief History of Time. Toronto: Bantam.

Hawking, Stephen, 2001. The Universe in a Nutshell. New York: Bantam.

Musser, George, 2002. Been there, done that. Scientific American 286(3) (Mar.): 25-26, http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?articleID=000D59C8-5512-1CC6-B4A8809EC588EEDF

Veneziano, Gabriele, 2004. The myth of the beginning of time. Scientific American 290(5) (May): 54-65.

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Claim CI200:
Every event has a cause. The universe itself had a beginning, so it must have had a first cause, which must have been a creator God.
Source:
Craig, W. L., 1994. Reasonable Faith: Christian truth and apologetics, Crossway Books, Wheaton IL.
Morris, Henry M., 1974. Scientific Creationism, Green Forest, AR: Master Books, pp. 19-20.
Response:

1. The assumption that every event has a cause, although common in our experience, is not necessarily universal. The apparent lack of cause for some events, such as radioactive decay, suggests that there might be exceptions. There are also hypotheses, such as alternate dimensions of time or an eternally oscillating universe, that allow a universe without a first cause.

2. By definition, a cause comes before an event. If time began with the universe, "before" does not even apply to it, and it is logically impossible that the universe be caused.

3. This claim raises the question of what caused God. If, as some claim, God does not need a cause, then by the same reasoning, neither does the universe.

Answer 3

"Something cannot come from nothing so something was.
So something has to be eternal in origin."

I don't think I can outright agree with that. In most cases it is right, but in some instances, it might not be.

Anyways, once you assert that something must be eternal in origin, it doesn't get you ANYWHERE as far as the argument for God goes. If you assert that God is eternal, someone else can just assert the universe was instead. And you have NOWHERE to go from there.

Answer 4

Even if that is so, which cutting edge physics seems to imply that its not, there is no reason to go beyond the phsyical universe.

Edit:

And other than your just asserting it, why do you think something has to be eternal, do you have any reason for saying that or does it just make you feel better?

Edit again:

It is interesting to follow your thought processes, most of us went through that a long time ago, it takes a lot of thought to work out things corcerning the nature of the infinite with a brain designed for the Savannahs of Africa, things such as causality don't work in a common sense fashion at the extremes.

See Eldads post below.

Answer 5

I cannot agree with the staements (there are two), because they are poorly written.

"Something cannot come from nothing so something was." makes no sense at all... maybe if you stopped after "nothing."

"Eternal" and "origin" make no sense together; if something is eternal, it has no origin.


Putting all that aside, matter and energy have been proven to be interchangeable. It is conceivable that there was a point in time when there was no matter, just energy, and then some of that energy was converted to matter... somehow

Answer 6

the latest theories of "M" space point to there not being any matter at all, only forces that leak though non-dimensional points in the fabric of our 3 dimensions.

The big bang only created non dimensional points, which, if you know anything about math, don't have any size. Therefore there really is NO MATTER in this universe.

Just the expression of 4 forces.

If you understood this, and maxwell equations along with simple laws of thermodynamics, you'd stop asking these questions that only demonstrate your ancient superstitions.

good luck!
tom

Answer 7

Not really. Quantum physics is finding some interesting things. 'Something from nothing' may actually be possible, at least from our macro point of view.

I don't know all of the answers and I'm more than comfortable with that. Improving our understanding of complex matters is what keeps life interesting.

Answer 8

So saying God poofed things into existence is NOT saying that something came from nothing?

Answer 9

I'm not certain, Paul S did point out an interesting phenomenon, however it has yet to be thoroughly explained. So my answer is I don't know, I can only say as we advance in our abilities to understand such phenomenons we may come out with an exact answer. I don't see why people are so ashamed or frightened admitting they don't know.

Answer 10

I disagree. I couldn't have come from nothing, so I must be eternal in origin? Who do you think I am, God?