what is the horse world coming to?

Question

i mean with all these clinicans. examples: clinton anderson. whats with his stick and teaching horses to stay out of ur space. i would rather have my horse in my space(as long as they aint steppin on toes) as to slappin it in the head with a stick and makin it afraid of me and draggin behind me..ray hunt... buckin a horse out before gettin on it... why create a problem teaching a horse to buck and having to fight to stop the problem... did u all know ray hunts horse had to be thrown on the ground behind a building every time he got on it.. because he created the problem of "bucking the horse out". every single time he rode that horse he had to do throw it down to get on because if tried any other way the horse would buck his a** off. why start a horse to buck unless it is going to be used as a bronc in a rodeo. craig cameron. no more space or i would write more.. does any one else agree with me?horse world is turning to ****. better horses back in the day then now. more ruined by them

clinicans have ruined so many horses these days and have taught others the same that dont know what they are doing and they end up having to shot the horse cause they have created so many problems no one can fix em'

the problem with these clinicans is they have only one way of training and thats all the teach- results in alot of messed up horses that i have to fix... i guess thats why i dont make money in the horse world, i dont teach one thing and i dont half a** everything for money and fame

Answer 1

I agree with you, 100% percent. Some people who label themselves "trainers" have no business being in the market!

In my region there are quite a few people who are so proud that their horse is "Parelli level 1!" or whatever the current trend is. What does this mean? It means they can ride their horse around in a halter and lead rope.

Woo hoo. *Eye roll* I can do that too. But guess what. I didn't pay $70 bucks for my fancy halter and then another $200 for all the videos.

I WORKED with my horse to develop TRUST and a BOND!! We care about each other-- yes, he really does have (and shows) affection for me.

And those people who are "Parelli Level 1" (etc) -- other than trail riding, what can they do with their horses? Can they show them in a Jumper class? What about a Hunter Equitation class? Or even Dressage?

Nope!

Why? Well stick a bit in their mouth and the horse is going to go nuts. Anything other than a western Tom Thumb bit and they have no breaks on the horse.

Ask the horse to understand the concept of contact on the bit? Impossible!! Why?
Well, every time these clinicians apply pressure to the horse's mouth, nose or poll, they ask the horse to evade the pressure.
So when you ride and you ask the horse to come on the bit or on contact, the horse will really be BEHIND the bit-- in EVERY discipline. Do you know how hard a habit that is to break?

And frankly the techniques employed during these natural sessions (such as running a horse in a TINY circle until it gets so tired or sore that it submits) is DAMAGING to the health of the horse!! This can cause intense hind end injuries as well as bowing tendons or popping splints on the front end from all those sharp turns the horses are made to do.


My horse is the best horse I've EVER met (yes, I'm biased). He comes when he's called, he knows "Stay" and "come here" and many other vocal commands.

He knows the difference between when I ride and when I put an inexperienced beginner on him. I ride him bareback in a leadline all the time. Sometimes without a lead line and NO REINS! He understand leg and seat commands and he pays attention to what I ask him to do.


We've been through various clinics where the clinician INSISTS that ALL horses must be roundpenned once a month (etc) to understand their job.

WHY? He takes care of me and I take care of him! We *trust* each other! Even when we have a "disagreement" about something (ie: He has an "I don't wanna" momment.) he's never mean about it- just stubborn!

Running him around in a round pen for 45 minutes won't help that! Instead, we work through it until he's successful and then he feels a sense of accomplishment.

I've tried round-penning my horse 2 times according to two different "Natural" methods.

Both times were absolute disasters!! My horse is already bonded to me and we already have a working relationship and mutual respect! Why would I need to re-establish that in a round pen if it already exists WITHOUT The pen?

One of the clinicians scared my horse sooo badly in the roundpen that my horse wouldn't let anyone pet him for a week!

I think the one good thing that these clinicians can teach PEOPLE is the attitude with which to aproach a horse. You must be confident about yourself. The minute you doubt yourself, the horse is going to sense this and become nervous and act accordingly.

Most of these 'natural' clinicians discuss body language when around horses. And this, to me, is the most important lesson a rider can follow. If you FEEL confident and assertive (read: not abusive!) then the horse will automatically sense this and understand that you are the herd leader. No need to "round pen" every horse to give them this message. Some horses? Yes. All horses? No.

Round pen and natural techniques work well on green horses, unhandled youngstock or dominant horses. These horses haven't always had the experiences around humans to understand that we are in charge and our safety is important. Establishing this is a safety issue. But once you establish your "position" in the horse's "herd" then you shouldn't have to restablish this just for the heck of it like so many natural clinicians teach!

You should have a constant partnership with your horse which tells the horse "I will take care of you and you will take care of me. We will respect each other, but ultimately *I* am in charge!"

(lol -- only because humans know that all the scary monsters like school buses and tractors won't *actually* eat horses.)


I believe every rider should find a trainer that works for THEM!

Any novice horse-person should not rely soley on tapes/videos and DVDs!! You need a REAL person there to help you with your horse -- what hapens if things don't move exactly as the video suggests they will? What do you do then? You need to find someone who is an educated professional who can help you. These videos are great for suggestions and ideas, but every person and every horse is different and you need a professional trainer who can assist you with anything that arrises!!

They should educate themselves to the various methods and pick the one that most-closely matches their beliefs and personality AND their horses personality!!

After all, even the most kind-hearted horse won't put up with being smacked in the face for-ever.

The techniques that work on one horse don't always work on EVERY Horse. The same for every rider.

Answer 2

I agree and not. While you can probably always learn something new from anyone, it also takes common sense to teach any animal. While I think the clinics do teach a lot of good things, they also have a tendancy to "cookie cutter" all of the problems. All horses are not alike and all respond different to different training methods. What works with one, does not always work with another. And so many of the people who go to the clinics are looking for a "quick fix" answer to a problem that was not created overnight. And when it does not happen, they blame the horse. Have you ever noticed that what a weekend clinic costs is about what a month's training would be? If you spent the money for the clinic AND put the time a trainer would in on your horse, then something might start to work. But most people expect instant results. AND get mad when they do not get them. I have spent over 4 years training my gelding. He is now a top notch western pleasure, halter, showmanship, and roping horse. But he did not get that way overnight. Some of the best trained horses I have ever seen have been the ranch geldings who where broke and trained by working cowboys. They stop, spin, rein, ground tie, etc., and have some of the best manners around. Without one of those cowboys ever going to a single clinic. But as long as people are willing to pay, the clinics will go on.

Answer 3

I'm gonna have to agree and disagree with you. For the most part, people do not know what they're doing with horses any more. Whoever this Ray Hunt is sounds like an idiot, but whatever...I mean, it's SO hard to find people who actually know what they're doing and know the horse's language. There's so many "trainers" out there that take short cuts just to get money, that in the end messes the horse's head up.

Not only that, but it's getting to the point where people just want a horse one day, go out and buy one, and have no idea what the hell to do with it. even if they got a great horse, they end up ruining it and blaming it on the horse. I mean, how many times do you hear "My horse has this problem" >.<

I like Clinton Anderson though. He has some great methods to help the horse understand, but I think he's skimpy on the relationship part. You can't teach your horse all these great things without building a relationship with him first.

I for one am still learning the way of the horse so I probably have no right criticizing some of these clinicians. I research it, practice with the eleven horses at my barn, and have watched some local trainers working with their horses. It'd be my dream to be a horse trainer when I grow up so I've got a long ways to go. Thanks for your opinion, but don't think the whole horse world is crashing down. There's some great people out there that actually understand horses and are helping other people understand them. I want to be one of those people some day :)

Answer 4

I agree to an extent.....it seems all these new trainers are very trendy right now. Everyone around the barn is talking about the latest Parelli series or the newest Clinton Anderson book. I think the bond and trust we create with our horses is the most important foundation for all of the things we ask our horse to do now and in the future. There is no better way to create this bond then by spending time with your horse, and not just riding. Too many people want some magic method to fix all their problems. Some methods are questionable, like setting the horse up to fail so we can quickly correct him. I don't agree with that....if he's not been doing wrong, why make him? I always work on problems as they arise naturally, not by creating them. Also, I've seen "natural" trainers chase their horses around with sticks and plastic bags so the horse "respects their space." I have never scared my horse from entering my space and he usually doesn't crowd me because he respects me, I am the herd leader. When he does, a quick tap on the side moves him out, not waving a big scary plastic bag in his face! If you watch horses in a pasture, you will notice the more dominant ones move others out of their space by using body language, and then resorting to contact....no plastic bags or sticks here! I do use plastic bags, sticks, tarps etc etc when desensitizing my horses, but NEVER to push them away from me.

On the other hand, I think we have a greater understanding of horse psychology today than we ever have and we can use this to our advantage. I do like Monty's methods, just because he spent sooooo much time observing horses in their natural state, that most of his methods communicate in a way the horse easliy understands. If we can see past all the gimmicks some of these new trainers use and seperate the good from the bad, I think there are some good methods out there. Use your judgement to determine what's best for your horse. If you aren't comfortable with something, don't do it, no matter what some mega-star, trendy trainer suggests.....but that's just me.

Answer 5

6 of one and half a dozen of another. Close your mouth and open your mind. Space is an important issue, if a horse will invade your space he/she will run your @ss over, period. You know it's amazing, everyone has their opinion in public, but it's usually different from their true opinion. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Clinton Anderson, John Lyons, and all the others use what works best for them. You use what works best for you. I use what works best for me. If you'll actually watch the shows with an open mind and a shut mouth you'll find that all of them use basically the same method of desensitizing a horse to the lead ropes and sticks, yep even Monty Roberts. My horses are so desensitized to my whip that I can actually hit them with it and they look at me like "Yea, and?" and don't move their feet, but I can cluck and and they move off. When I first bought my mare she was scared of EVERYTHING! But not anymore. I found what works for me, that is the most important part of training a horse. The only horse that I have ever had buck with me were horses that I had gotten after someone else messed up, usually old cowboys that were going to buck them out.

Answer 6

Why does the horse always have to be white? Why not brown? Why do Christians still picture Jesus as a white guy? Oh yeah, the pros and cons. There are far too many people out there who want to do god's work. Religious terrorism was started by christians.

Answer 7

I totally understand what you are saying. It's just that a lot of horse owners are us older, middle age women that have alwayss wanted a horse and are now able to afford them. Some of us don't always have access to a trainer like you. I, personally, have had good success with Clinton Anderson's method of training and I don't have experience with the others you've mentioned. If you follow the training in sequence, it can be quite effective. Unfortunately, for trainers like you, you only get to see the horses that have been trained wrong. If you came to see my horse, a rescued Standardbred that had major issues, you would see a success story of natural horsemanship training. Finally, because we're older, we need to be more cautious when it comes to training a horse - we break easier. Like I said, I DO understand what you are saying and there are a lot of other things that were much better "back in the day." But please, if you can, for those of us that only have a horse or two and don't have years and years of experience, at least give us credit for loving our horses and trying to make the best of what we have.

Answer 8

I agree whats with the stick and rope waving thing????

I like Monty Roberts though ... there is no rope no stick just you and the horse you use body language to communicate not by waving a stick at the horse

I have seen trainers who use the wave the stick at the horse method to try to get a horse to stop rearing but all it did was confuse scare and anger the horse and make the problem worse...


but all of this is my opinion.

Answer 9

the world is constantly changing and just like teenagers think they have to have a cell phone or computer to survive the 'horse world' is evolving
I , being young myself 15, train all my horses the old ways gain the trust throw food on the ground make the horse come to you once you get there jump on and go if you fall get back up
but you have too look at the people being brought up all this technology people arent' being taught the basics any more its just what can you do to make it work and fast

Answer 10

Well, I believe in Monty Roberts methods: Don't use force on a horse. Just use patience and good will. You won't get results out of your horse unless they trust you and are kind to you. And don't forget to be kind to them. I don't believe in what you were saying about the horse above.