for breeders.. How are you improving your breed?

Question

Breeders claim to be improving the breed, and if you look at OLD photos, the breeds have changed over the years. I am wondering how each of you have improved your own breed.. How many generations do you think it takes to make a difference?

(I focus on longevity, health, gait, and trainability...as those are deteriorating in the breed..).

Some of you have taken the phrase, "improve the breed" to mean that the breed isn't good enough. I think it is arrogant to assume the breed is as good as it gets..Most of the 'improvements' have lead to shortened lifespan, and lack of original drive for purpose. In my own breed, one might say that the very famous dog, that won at Westminster, is as good as it gets. I have been in close conatct with the owners of that dog and kennel. Their life expectancy is about 10-12 years..The OLD line dogs of same breed, were living well into their teens and even 20's...So, isn't there still room for improvement? I think it is arrogant to think otherwise!
If one can capture the magic of the leading 'show' winners, and blend with the lines of longevity, I believe it to be an improvement, or more like a restoration to form and function and health..Of course this takes work, and study, study, and more study...and a willingness to be out of the popular trends of exagerated characteristics.

Answer 1

What breed do you have? I breed & show White Shepherds.

Yes, lots of breeders say they are breeding to better the breed... Yet, what they are trying to make "better" probably varies. Some folks are just sucked into WINNING in the show ring... So they think "bettering" the breed is making puppies that will win, win, win.

In my breeding program, my main goals are bettering/maintaining health, temperament, and overall conformation. Health and temperament are HUGE!!! Why would anyone want a pretty dog if it had a poor temperament and/or horrible health problems. In White Shepherds we have an organization called the White Shepherd Genetics Project (www.wsgenetics.org). The honest folks will report health problems and there is a database to search. When I plan a breeding I look through the database to make sure I am not "doubling up" on anything bad... And I also keep an eye out for problems that I don't want introduced into my lines. With temperament, I am trying to "better" it by being very selective of my breeding stock. I want to breed White Shepherds that can do any job asked of them. Since WS are still registered in AKC as German Shepherds, I plan to cross some whites out to the strong, working tempered GSDs. And when choosing whites for my breeding stock I will choose only those pups/dogs with working ability and confidence.

As for how many generations... Heck, it goes on forever. There is no perfect dog or bloodline out there and we'll probably never have one. That's what makes breeding fun! There's always a goal to work towards! :o)

Answer 2

I breed my dogs to improve our breed (humans). Unfortunately, some people think they can better a breed, remember when a siamese was an apple headed cat? Yes, there are still some, but most are now the rodent looking head.

Shepherds, once larger and not nearly so slanted, generally weighed 20 lbs or more than shepherds today, and not as many had hip dysplasia when they were heavier. They are being bred to be what they aren't. A shepherd isn't a "highly intelligent" dog, they can be "highly trainable" and there's a big difference. Shepherds are also by nature timid of things they don't know, not overly aggressive, but today they are on the restricted breed list in places that have them.

I'm trying to leave what I think is a great breed of dog alone, and work only on making sure the parents are mature, healthy, vet checked and approved and well adjusted - I also make sure not to over breed, and that I have all the pups homes before delivery. I also train some of the pups to be service dogs. People need to worry about mankind's shortcomings, after all Rin Tin Tin was perfect, wasn't he?

whpptwmn - Not saying the restricted breed list does imply aggression; personally I think the list should be outlawed in all places and each dog should be evaluated by his/her behavior. I own a husky and was once denied homeowners insurance because of the husky, anyone that's ever owned a sibe knows they are aggressive with other animals, but not people. Which also doesn't mean any dog, husky, shepherd, a happy little bichon, can't be over bred and be missing something in the temperment department, they can and are. When you take a dog that isn't aggressive and breed it only for looks, which I hate the overly slanted look, but I've shown enough to know that is what people are now looking for in a GSD, the dog doesn't have the personality it is known for - instead you end up with a dog that is recognized worldwide in the top 3 for biting. All of my dogs are bred for temperment and health, I don't own a shepherd that I can't reach in the mouth of and remove a treat, and I've never had one of my own bite me.

I agree with chetco, people aren't making the breeds better when they breed the dog for physical changes, and they often in-breed to get those physical results.

My dogs are healthy, happy and yes, my shepherds are very loyal, eager to please, and voice conditioned, much to the amusement of the husky who comes when she wants, and never purposely gets out of the fenced area without the benefit of a double leash. True to the nature of the dogs, the husky is alpha and friends with people known and unknown alike, and the shepherds remain timid with strangers.

Answer 3

I don't like the saying "improving the breed". To me, it implies that my dogs are somehow better than the dogs in the past. At what point is the breed improved and needs no further work? Just wording, I know, but I don't like the saying, what is wrong with maintaining a breed?

Health and longevity are the most important and I think it should be for everyone. What good is a beautiful topline and great movement, if the dog is dead at 5 years?

As far as trainability, I don't expect a SH to be as trainable as other breeds. I certainly wouldn't want them to ever get a Golden type, eager to work personality as I don't feel that would be correct. If I wanted a highly trainable dog I would have a different breed, but I like dogs that think for themselves.

I think it is important to breed away from things that are common faults in the breed. I see so much toeing in these days and I absolutely hate it. Pretty heads and nice ears are nice to look at, but has nothing to do with what my breed is bred to do.

My dogs are not the fastest dogs out there, nor are they the nicest show dogs out there. But if I can breed healthy, finishable dogs with good prey drive that are reasonably fast, I am happy with it. Of course, group placements are still nice, but I am not a numbers chaser.


BTW, I didn't see you around here for awhile, good to have you back!


With health testing and careful selection of breeding stock, health/longevity will get better. Sadly, many people are much more concerned with ROMs and being in the top 10 or 20 to breed to that less known dog instead of the current big winner, who is usually young and any problems just haven't shown up yet. There was a litter in my breed recently who was celebrating their 15th birthday, 6 of 7 were still alive with no genetic health problems, THAT would be a line to use! Health/longevity can always be improved.

When I commented on improving the breed I was commenting on physical traits. There are definately breeds that not only do I think have not been improved, but have deteriorated by the more-is-better syndrome. Should a GSD win when it looks like not only can he not trot all day, but can barely make it around the ring? Should an AH win because of excessive bounce and a huge coat, when he has an obvious hitch and is over angulated? Just my opinions of course, no offense meant.


Alis - "Shepherds are also by nature timid of things they don't know, not overly aggressive, but today they are on the restricted breed list in places that have them"

That, in itself, says little about aggressive tendencies. Keeshonden, Frenchies, Bostons, Mals, Sibes, Boxers, etc, are on lists as well. I am somewhat familiar with several of these breeds and showed Kees for years, and Kees, frenchies, and Bostons must be among the least likely to bite breeds. ANY breed is only a single bite away from being banned/restricted somewhere.

Answer 4

I've always thought that the idea of "bettering the breed" you've chosen is kind of a silly statement -- if not downright arrogant.

Who's to say that the breed wasn't "good" before you showed up? If you breed only 1-2 litters a year, on average, and stay in the breed for 50 years, how much of an impact are you really having on the breed as a whole, anyway?

I prefer to say that I'm trying to improve on what I have in my kennel -- striving for the following goals:

1. Dogs in my kennel that adhere to my breed Standard.

2. Dogs that can capably perform the function that they were originally bred for, and upon which their Standard was based.

3. Dogs that are sound in temperament and genetically healthy.

If I can achieve these goals in my own kennel, then I supposed they contribute to the health of the breed as a whole...however I know that I will never have as much impact on the breed as other kennels, those that do more breeding, and sell dogs all over the world. However, whether these kennels ultimately "improve" the breed is debatable and remains to be seen.

I also rescue and contribute to genetic research for my breed. I guess this could be seen as improving the breed, or perhaps just improving its "plight"?

Answer 5

I'm trying to continue lines that have had a very rare combination of success in preformace & show ring venues (and a lotta obedience/agility too)
I am not so egotistical to think I am improving the entire breed but I hold these lines in trust for future generations and If it dont attempt to hold this combination togher for those future generations (the current one places little value on the combination perfering extream sucess in one venue or another) I will have failed that trust.

Oh and PS I continue to be the voice crying in the wilderness over a major health problem that seems to be slipping between the cracks in breeders consideration (in my breed anyway). no, I didnt breed the affected dog or relatives.