atheists and believers ...on ID?

Question

Why do you think that scientists have not yet proven after countless failed attempts that genetic mutation can not breed different species? Also, there are certain constructs in biology, certain particular features that can't be explained by evolution because they have irreduceable complexity. Take the eye, for instance. How do you develop something as complicated as the eye by a process of natural selection. It doesn't seem like that would fit with the slow gradual process where small changes get selected for. You'd never get there. The problem with that argument is biology actually is identifying multiple intermediate steps from the simplest single light-sensitive cell to something as complicated as the eye which clearly could have evolution acting upon them and result in a complicated structure.

wow..so many thumbs down from atheists and not ONE answer to refute....:chuckles:

Answer 1

You have only scratched the surface when it comes to the lies taught by the hypothesis of evolution. There is overwhelming evidence -scientific and historic- which supports the Bible and all of its doctrines. Why do these wilfully ignorant fools continue to believe in The Lie of Satan? Because the god of this world has blinded them to the truth, because they prefer to remain sinful and wilfully ignorant and because they have fallen into the exact same sin which brought down Satan -PRIDE.
KC Superstar: I see where you want to go with this but you miss the entire point. God is far beyond our capabilities of understanding and He exists outside of time and space. How, then, would it ever be possible for finite creatures such as humans to understand or comprehend an infinite Creator Who exists outside of our realm of understanding? Evolution has no explanation for much of the evidence we find in the world around us. Evolutionists merely cling to their adamant claims that evolution must be true because if Special Creation was true then so is the entire Bible. Evolution is based solely on the conjecture, imaginations and bias of evolutionists -even evolutionary scientists have admitted this- and there is absolutely no evidence to support the hypothesis of evolution, whatsoever.
Melanie T: If you would even bother to look at some of the evidence from the resources I've listed you'd have your proof. Yet I know you will choose to continue in your wilful ignorance and refuse to even seek out the resources available, just as most evolutionists and unbelievers seem to prefer to live in their wilful ignorance
Maxwell: Please don't try to patronize us. Where is the evidence that the earth is billions of years old? Nowhere!. The actual, true, verifiable evidence shows that the earth and the entire universe are NOT millions of years old, but only thousands. Even the Hubble Space Telescope has sent back such evidence. I would also refer you to the resources I've listed, if I thought you'd actually look at them.

Answer 2

The "What good is half an eye?" argument
Well if we are so special, why do we have such inferior eyes? Perhaps what we have would be considered half an eye to something as evolved as an eagle. It is comparable to "what good is half a wing?" There are plenty of forest creatures that glide. There is a certain height that half a wing would save a creature if it fell out of a tree where 49% would not. and a gradually higher tree where the creature would need 51% of a wing. The same can be assumed about a part of an eye that would keep you from walking off of a cliff, where less of an eye would not.

There are many stages of evolution in eyes. Starting with photo sensitive cells all the way up to fully formed eyes. Just because you cant imagine not having a fully formed eye does not mean that it was not the case for creatures at one time.

Irreducible complexity is shown worthless in "The God Delusion" but I doubt you would really look for the real answers. You are more amused in how you are getting so few answers minutes after you post a complex question which deserves an answer too complex for Y!A.

Answer 3

Irreducible complexity has been blown to shreds. In 2005, at the Kitzmiller v. Dover School Board case, Michael Behe (the essential founder of irreducible complexity) was asked if he read 58 peer-reviewed articles and nine books on the evolution of the immune system, which he had stated was "too complex to have evolved". He stated that he had read them, but they "weren't good enough".


Okay, let's take the eye. You start off with some light-sensitive cells (you can tell if it's dark out, or light out). These cells multiply - you have more of them. They continue to mulitply and become concave - you have some directionality, and can begin to see basic colors. They become even more concave and multiply even more - you can see more colors and have more directionality. They become fully rounded after multiplying some more. Eventually, you get the human eye. What good is half an eye? Certainly better and more functional than 1/4 of an eye.

The universe is complex, we can all agree. If a god were required to create a universe this complex, that god would have to be incredibly more complex than the universe. That god would be so complex it too would need an even more complex desiger. Do you see where I'm going with this?

Answer 4

First off, no BS here - I'm an atheist.

Firstly, you sound like a person of faith, and I am going to commend you on the way you approached the question. Most of the religious folks I know just beat their heads against a Bible, fingers firmly in ears.

Now, on to the question. The main, dividing difference that causes misguided thoughts is the age of life on Earth. Given that you're not one of the early-Earthers (If so, you're lost, I can't help you), then you and I can agree that archeological evidence points to Earth being about 4 billion, that's B - billion years old. So from the time life sprang for till the time creatures with eyes existed was literally hundreds of millions of years. Given that we do KNOW, not believe, that small genetic variations in animals exist, let's start from there.

Using your eye analogy, let's start with an idea of what us evolutionites think started life - single celled soup. Now, what if all this flourinshing single cell soup had one genetic mishap that was a photosensitive chemical, that drove the single-celled organism to light. If everyone else just floated around, but he floated better than everyone else, he would get more food, have significantly more passionate sex with the other protozoa, and soon everyone would have light-sensors. What about the next guy two million years later who has maybe a three cell body, and one of them is long and whips back and forth?

The rest is trivial. You heard me, trivial. Given a very simple set of rules, and proper circumstance, very strange things will happen, and you can prove this to yourself with the _very_ basic genetic simulators available on the internet. I'll link you to one I kinda like to play with.

The other main point of your argument which is not completely wrapped up is the point of the rich biodiversity on the planet. Proof of evolution within biodiversity is a easy because of the taxonomy we use in animals. We can divvy every single living thing on this planet into a simple method of classification, with shared traits al the way up the taxonomy. So by taking a "generic" animal, and applying lots of little variations on it, you end up with things like mushrooms, people, and yes, black plague. We also are finding more and more "missing link" pieces every year, so the religious really need to stop pulling that one. Every neandrathal bone that we find that we have difficulty placing as ape or person should set some alarms off against this ID thing.

And finally as an American, keep your filthy religion out of my Constitutionally-guaranteed secular classroom. We should be embarassed it's even a debate.

And there, off my soapbox. Hope that didn't come off spiteful, and I hope it shined some light on some things. Cheers!

Answer 5

firstly, atheists aren't answering because frankly, we're tired of repeating ourselves to ignorant people

what countless failed attempts are you talking about? how can scientists repicate an experiement with evolution when evolution is a gradual process that takes longer than one generation? Are you denying evolution just because your small mind can't comprehend the concept or because there really is something wrong with it, if the concept of evolution was so filled with holes as you and many of your fellow christians say, then the matter would've been dropped years ago

if you refuse to believe something then don't make up false information to prove it wrong

you're so narrow-minded, it's easier for you to believe in god creating people? I find that to be absurd

Answer 6

Every process in nature is continual and happens over and over again. I believe that if evolution were a reality that there would still be things in the process of becoming human from lower life forms.

Answer 7

Actually, genetics fully support speciation. No biological system has ever been demonstrated as irreducibly complex. The development of the eye is easily explained by gradual change. As delicate and elegant as the eye is, it is actually a fairly simple structure.

Answer 8

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Answer 9

Come on, guys. There are things we don't understand about evolution, but that doesn't mean that it disproves evolution.

And the Eye? There are solutions to that unsolvable problem. Check out some of the sites below.

Are you sure God couldn't exist in a world of Evolution?

Answer 10

perhaps but evolution does not happen overnight. Planet Earth is 4.5 billion years old with simple life probably close to 400 million years old. Light sensitive cells would have had plenty of time to become differentiated in that time and the species with the most sensitive light-sensitive cells would have flourished over those without.