If God knows everything than doesn't that mean ...?

Question

So from a Christian's view point, God knows everything. That means he knows where we will go after death before he even creates us. So that means he created a whole bunch of people he knew were going to hell.

This brings me to some conclusions:
1. God is not all loving OR,
2. he is not all knowing OR,
3. the Predestination theory is correct OR,
4. God does not exist

What do you think about my reasoning? Is it logical?

Answer 1

Yep, it's logical.
But you left something out...

If god knows everything, then this "free will" stuff the christians are always throwing around is absolutely incorrect.

See, if god knows what the outcome of every decision you'll ever make is (all-knowing), then it is impossible for you to make a decision differently from what he already knows. Therefore you have no choice at all -- you MUST decide the way he knows you're going to decide...and hence no free will. It can't work both ways -- either you have free will, in which case god can be surprised by what you do (and which means he doesn't know everything), or he knows everything, in which case all of your decisions have pre-determined outcomes and you have no free will.

Yet ANOTHER logical absurdity in the huge intellectual mess that is religion. :)

I deny the existence of god. Therefore by his rules, I'm going to hell -- he knows that, and has known it since the beginning of time. So he created me, says he loves me, but knows I'm going to hell and he's going to punish me forever. Is this the god you folks believe in?

Much smarter to just accept the overwhelming evidence that god does not exist, and get on with life! Then you can worry about actually living instead of arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...:)

Answer 2

I read through these answers, especially the pastor's who I respectfully disagree with since the scriptures can be quite clear on these issues if taken in the correct light -- so I'll make a plug for Calvinism here which might help with a successful resolution of your question..

First of all, you're assuming hyper Calvinism and double predestination which is nowhere to be found in Scripture. God creating a bunch of people he knew were going to hell would make God the author of sin, and therefore not worthy of worship. However, if Adam propagated sin to the entire human race because of his fall, then the cause is Adam's, not God's, and we all know who is destined for hell -- everybody!

So God, out of His loving grace, being the only one that can bring anyone to himself, in his omnipotence, can not only love his own even though we don't deserve it, but he can love them whenever he likes, and the Bible supports foreknowledge, or pre-loving if you will, from before the foundations of the world. And so my answers to your questions are:

1. God is not all-loving, which doesn't sound fair, but it also doesn't mean that he has predestined the ones he doesn't love to help -- we do that for ourselves anyway.

2. God is all-knowing, but if we are all guilty, it's a pretty simple thing for anyone to figure out that knowing everything ahead of time doesn't matter, free will can be any decision we want -- everyone is headed for the same place anyway.

3. The predestination verses can be read at face value in this light, this isn't an issue to twist around to preserve a choice for God, or even say "I don't know, wait for Heaven" when the Bible seems to be pretty clear about it. We just don't have a capability to choose him. Guilty is guilty we're dead in our sins and can't raise ourselves up without divine intervention.

4. Of course God exists and this can be argued from a philosophical viewpoint as well as a logical viewpoint, making Christianity only a small step of faith rather than a giant leap with a running start!

Hope this helps, it might be a different spin on what you have read so far, but this is how I understand both predestination and free will.

Answer 3

fred: God chooses to leave the decision making ( called "free moral agency") up to humans to decide for themselves. I'm a Christian, and do NOT believe in "hell" , as it is not a plausible Biblical dogma [doctrine] but an mis- interpretation of biblical words. God is in the saving business (isn't that why He gave His Son, Jesus to die ?) ! God chooses to NOT know everything and therefore, allows people to do his or her own thing. The "Predestination" theory is an assumption that God plays favourites and only the "elitists" God has "chosen", will be "in Heaven" and Satan will win the vast majority of humans ever, created since Adam and Eve. This makes God a bigot, less-powerful than Satan - the Devil, and makes God out to be a "sadist" ... roasting His creation for eternity, over a fire !!! - This too is WRONG !!! God DOES exist but not in the way dysfunctional religion has portrayed Him . There is TONS of bad theology out there !!! Do your OWN research to prove God's existence (use the sciences - physics, bio science and history). Don't be afraid to ask all the questions, as you have been doing. You would have to be stupid to just "believe" there's a God because someone says so ! If you are sincere and really want to know - seek and you will find !!!

Answer 4

Let's say you were allowed to live in one of two worlds. In the first word everything you think, do and say is controlled by your master. He can force you to be all good, all bad or a little of both. But you have no control over your own life. You have no life. You are a slave to another being. Even after death your master will still control your very spirit.

In the other world you have complete control over your own life. You make your own decisions, good or bad. Your master prefers you do only good, but he knows you are an imperfect being. You make mistakes. We all do.

Which master is more loving? The one who controls you or the one who gives you free will?

The one who gives you free will is also all knowing. He knows your final destiny. In this case it's heaven or hell. For all eternity. That's a long time. To prove his love for you he can force you to do good, thereby guaranteeing your place in heaven. But then he is no more loving than the ruler of the first world. Force or manipulation are not evidence of love.

To show his real love for you he makes a personal sacrifice by becoming a human like you and dies for all the wrong you've ever done and will continue to do. He's like a judge pardoning you in court, wiping out any criminal record. Better still, this ruler even wipes from his memory all you've done wrong. He cannot hold your wrongs against you.

There's just one catch. You have to admit to your faults, try your hardest not to commit them again, accept that you'll still fail and continue to seek his pardon when you do.

There's more ...

From now until the day you die, you have to trust that all he's telling you is true. Trust that he is your only ticket to heaven. That's called faith.

Predestination? Bad choice of words. God does not decide who goes to heaven and who goes to hell. He just knows. You decide where you go. Only you.

In WellTraveledProg's answer to your question, he denies the existence of God. He further states you have no choice because it's impossible to make a decision different from what an all-knowing God already knows.

God knows the future. We don’t. We only know right now. For someone like WellTraveledProg to say he's going to hell may not be accurate. He does not know what the future will bring for him. He only knows right now.

Those who do trust in God's promise of salvation know without a doubt they're going to heaven. Once you put your trust in God this gift of salvation cannot be revoked. It becomes a solemn contract. If God copped out, He wouldn't be all-loving.

Does God exist? If you trust in God and in the end you discover it was all a hoax, what have you lost? Nothing really. You may even become a better person. What's wrong with that? And if He is for real? You lose out in some amazing blessings ... in this world and the next. Are you willing to take that chance?

Pick up a copy of The Unusual Suspect by Stephen Baldwin (Alec's brother). Read about the amazing transformation in his life when he decided (of his own free will) to trust in God.

Answer 5

God didn't create a bunch of souls that were pre-determined to go to HELL. There is no lake of fire. God knew soul would become restless, therefore created a whole set of lower planes to keep them entertained. They continued to ascend lower and lower until they reached the physical plane (toilet bowl of all planes). Yet, he created karma and reincarnation as a means to return to the kingdome of heaven. When the soul gets knocked around often enough and must continue reincarnating into the physical plane to deal with the effects of the causes they created, they will eventually seek a higher purpose, then begin the ascent back to the kingdom of heaven.

Doesn't this sound more logical than the scenario you presented?

Answer 6

No. The Bible says God is love, you have taken your view of what love is and tried to impose that upon God, but he is the standard, you are not. 2. God is omniscient 3. The Bible does teach Predestination 4. You already know the answer.

Answer 7

 
As a pastor, one of the realities of life I try to help people deal with is the fact that there are questions we simply don’t have the answer to. No matter how hard we ponder the imponderables of life, we will never be able to figure everything out.
 
That’s one reason I’m looking forward to heaven. In heaven, our eyes will be opened to see and comprehend things that are mysteries to us down here. Heaven will be a wonderful time of discovering all that God was doing in our lives…to use us on earth and fit us for heaven.
 
Just because we don’t have all of the explanations here on earth doesn’t mean that the explanations aren’t there.  In fact, I think we will be saying, “Ah, ha,” a whole lot in heaven!
 
To me, one of the best parts of the transformation we will undergo in heaven is our transformation from faith to sight. Right now we live by faith, but sometimes our faith falters. When we see the face of Jesus, though, we will have no more questions or doubts, only praise for His infinite goodness and wisdom.
 
So what should the anticipation of heaven do for you and me on earth today? For one thing, it should motivate us to continue living by faith, knowing  that God not only has a perfect purpose for our lives, but also that one day we will see and understand that purpose and have all of our questions answered…once and for all!
 
SOMEDAY YOU’LL HAVE THE ANSWERS TO ALL YOUR QUESTIONS!

Answer 8

No it isn't logical. I can understand your perception on the way you see it because reality may look as though this is true, but you cant always lean on your own understanding and affirm things about God;because it is in err. Gods ways are higher than ours, as the stars are higher than earth so is his ways. what can the clay say to the maker. it is like a child telling an adult how it is. the more you try to reason with Gods knowledge and wisdom the more in err you become.

Answer 9

You have forgotten one thing. God does not interfere with our choices. So God loves everyone and knows everything but because we have free will He will not make us all turn to Him. It's similar to this, If you knew your best friend was going to die no matter what but you were stuck in the jungle without a way of contacting him then you know his fate and you love him but there are obstacles in your way. God's obstacle is free will.

Answer 10

As far as the bible God he is the most sadistical and best example of pure evil this world has ever seen.

You are correct in your assessment of that God. His knowing everything would mean he created some souls just so he could torture them! There is no freewill in the bible. The only places it is used is in referance to an offering to God! The word freewill isn't even in the new testament! NOT ONE TIME!!!!
Predestination on the other hand is mentioned over and over again! Face it we were all set up by this God!!!

Now the good news is outside of the fantasy world of religion THERE IS NO GOD!!!
Isn't that a relief!!!