A flaw in Buddhism?....?

Question

Now do not get me wrong, I am a big fan of Buddhism, however in pondering about its doctrine I have stumbled across a bit of a flaw.

The idea of Nirvana (or enlightenment) is the eventual end of the cycle of Samsara (birth, suffering, death, rebirth). This is the goal of all devout Buddhists and they believe that until they reach it they will continue to be reborn into this cycle. Now let us hypothetically say that everyone in the world converted to Buddhism and one by one they became enlightened and reached Nirvana, when they then die, which is called Parinirvana (a person's fully passing away), they are not reborn. How does the world keep going if everyone is dying out one-by-one? I know Buddhists believe in a rebirth, cyclical life, but I am not sure whether they believe in "new birth" or not. If not how would a civilization keep perpetuating itself if everyone's goal was to one day reach Nirvana and then seize to "exist" as we know it?

Farien - Thank you for the answer and the spelling correcting, haha. I see your point, but am confused, are you saying that there is such thing as "new birth" in Buddhism, or just that it would take everyone a long time to reach Nirvana? I am talking figuratively here if your case is the latter. I am not concerned with the probability of it, just the idea of it at some point being a problem.

Pangel - Thanks

Nemesyn - As I say to Farien, it is the idea. I understand that enlightenment could virtually take millions of lifetimes to achieve, but still the idea that if everyone did strive for the this the world could be emptied a few at a time is the problem in question here. The last time I checked, I was not aware that the goal of Buddhism was to leave this world "personless" as you suggest. But I am thinking you do believe in "new birth" in Buddhism, so that would make it not totally cyclical?

Nemesyn (cont.) - I like your cynical put down of religions, but please, I admit I am not wise, but I am not naive either. I am not on some epic search for the perfect religion, for I know there isn't one. I chose not to believe in religion, but can I still question?

Tim - I love the little metaphor, but I hope you do not mistake my liking of Buddhism as sarcasm. I truly do have a strong respect for the faith. I know that for Buddhists belief is not the only facet of their religion. However, I really do not see too much of an answer to my question, am I missing something? I am not trying to combat your religion (if this is it), I am merely putting quetions forth about it, I keep it in mind that I could be as much wrong as the next person, fore that is why I ask. But do not beat around the bush by saying a real Buddhist would not question these things, that is a religions way of not owning up to what could be a flaw.

Jason.gma... - Please elaborate, I draw no conclusion from that.

Grand Inquisitor San Antonio - Thank you for adding a bit of comic relief to an otherwise serious topic.

Shellaroe - Your answer to me sounds like a very interesting opinion to the beginning of this world. But that is what I will have to take it as, an opinion (for now). I do not recall that belief being on the drawing board for Buddhism, let alone any of the world's major religions, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Arckitekt - As I said to Jason, please elaborate, and if it does mean, who cares Buddhists are not supposed to worry about these things, then I call into question what I did with Tim, and that is religions using answers like these commonly to get around answering questions that could reveal a flaw in their belief, and I do not accept that as a credible answer.

Digilook - I like your answer, but I fear it is of the same stature as I just mentioned above, please, if you could add to it. And Peace and Love indeed my friend.

Answer 1

You're forgetting that as each Buddhist 'became enlightened' there would be millions more being born who wouldn't. Enlightenment doesn't just come upon you out of the deep blue sky, it's something that takes time, rebirth, the steady and slow accumulation of wisdom. There is no lack of unenlightened folks out there, and they keep breeding.

P.S. It's 'cease' to exist, not 'seize'. 'Seize' means 'to take hold or possession of'.

Answer 2

I thought I was the only one who could come up with that question. I was also thinking about the question when I was about 10 yrs old, along with other mind boggling questions esp. about Buddhism, when I first learned Buddhism in my school. I even had headaches just trying to figure out what's gonna happen with the hypothetical question. I actually got scared thinking about that, somehow. . The question put me off of Buddhism for several years. Anyway I explored Buddhism again more than a year ago(got interested again, thanx to a friend) and I think that question was sort of answered when I read the doctrine of non-self(anatta). The question didn't bother me anymore. I don't really understand why, moreover to explain it to you, but if you have spare time maybe you can read more about the three characteristics(tilakkhana) and contemplate these teachings. After you do that, I hope that you can understand the answer to your question. Meditation helps too, I think.


Btw, I think although it's a hypothetical question, it is still a possibility, and it may happen eventually, unless there are "new beings" being born into the world all the time.

Ps There are questions that are beneficial and there are questions that are not beneficial. If it's not beneficial, it can "split your head in 7 pieces", but if the question is beneficial, it will be a tremendous help for you.

Answer 3

The simple answer is that just as day becomes night and night becomes day until the sun is extinguished, and Birth leads to old age and then onto death and rebirth until full awakening and full extinction (Parinirvana) occurs, the universe has a similar cycle. The universe comes into existence (Vivartakalpa), exists in a constant state of change (Vivartasthayikalpa) the universe unwinds or dissolves (Samvartakalpa) and then the universe is no more and remain unchanged in a constant state of non-existence (Samvartasthayikalpa) until the next Vivartakalpa. This is the cycle of mahakalpa. Even mahakalpa has cycles and those cycles have cycles and even though the Buddha stopped his explanations at that level, what he left us was a deep understanding that all things are cyclical and that each cycle leads to another until ultimate extinction is achieved.

I hope this helps.

Answer 4

I see what you mean but consider this: it can take a soul many (many, many) lifetimes in order to reach Nirvana because along the way there are a thousand ways to sin and a million debts to pay. Also, with the inevitable overpopulation of the world are you really worried that there won't be enough "new birth" to inhabit the world? And, if everyone does reach Parinirvana and does not return that means everyone has reached enlightenment and peace. Would that be so bad? Who wants to come back to death and taxes? Lastly, I think if you're trying to find a religion with perfect odds & ends, and no loose threads you're out of luck.

Answer 5

Hi. I am not a Buddist. But no religion, to my opinion, can be as explainable and as coherent as Buddism. While I do not profess to be expert in their belief most of my belief in spirit and life seemed to parallel most of the Buddist view.

First of all, if Nirvana does exist as a state of existence then it is not achievable by one life sitting. "How does the world keep going if everyone is dying out" can be fully understood with the understanding of the spirit. First let us explore the essence of we are. Deep down the bottom of our true nature is a spirit. This spirit has no other but being the only "IT". It is different from the spirit that mediums are in contact. This spirit is the same to all of us - the image of the creator. To understand the characteristic of the spirit is to have a basic understanding of matter. The best way to understand the spirit which is unobservable by scientific method can be best understood by taking the opposite characteristic of a matter which is observable. Why? Because nature is always endowed with opposite pairs( e.g. positive and negative, female and male).

So let's take a closer look the opposite nature of matter and spirit.

Matter: constantly undergoing change. Spirit: Permanent.
Matter: many forms, variants. Spirit: One. ( same to all)
Matter: dead. Spirit: alive.
Matter: unconscious Spirit: conscious.

Opposite attracts: The oppositeness of matter and spirit is what makes the latter attracted to the former thereby the fusion of spirit and body- creation. The fusion brought out the thinking soul - the one who ate the forbidden fruits and acquire the knowledge of what is bad and good and is condemn to experience death.

Do you now see the picture why for as long as matter (earth)allows life to flourish there would always be soul to be born. Buddist other term for soul is ego. It is the spirit in us that needs to be enlighten therefore our effort to get rid of the ego. When a body dies, the soul will follow soon enough. This dying process of the soul is the act of crossing over to the other side from the astral plane. It will never enter the spirit world. Only your spirit - your true essence enters the spiritual world along with the knowledge learned from physical existence. Reincarnation then is a new birth based on what is learned from previous soul/s. The new soul is not the previous old souls but a better and more evolved being to continue the process of learning.

So there is really nothing to fear if your soul will die because it is really not who you are but ego born out of ignorance of your spiritual essence.

I am aware I could not answer all you questions because either answer sare too touchy, too long, or haven't a clue.

Notice how I have intermixed two familiar thoughts of Buddism and Christianity? Because they are mostly similar. Only how it is being presented that makes us argue which is the truth.

Answer 6

After studying Buddhism for eighteen years I can tell you by experience that it is impossible to have billions of enlighten ones. Also there are other worlds according to Buddhism and when individuals in other worlds die, they also have a possibility to born as human. For example, according to Buddha, gods do not have that much power and they can be born as a human if they screw-up something up there. There for:
1.It is impossible for everyone to reach nirvana.
2.There are other worlds with living beings, which could potentially create more human by recycling the energy.
Don't worry pal, it will not happen.

Answer 7

Speculation is another shade of delusion. Wise people have right contemplation. Deluded people get lost in their own thinking. How can a tadpole understand what's on land and it's beyond? Be a frog first, then jump around in adventure. Only then you can ask the above question.

As for devout Buddhism, mere belief is not enough. Buddhism is a practice of wisdom and compassion, everything in the teaching and practice is verifiable. Real Buddhists do not have blind faith nor confused speculations.

Answer 8

Do you really think the world will be "people-less"? There are so many people who call themselves Buddhist and they actually walked the wrong path.

In the 8 verses of mind transformation, accept defeat and offfcer victory to those who wants to win, but so far the one sitting near to me cant do so (just my perception) and she has been a buddhist for so long (sorry man, this is only for an example)

Therefore, people will re-incarnate, until the end of time, Lord Buddha Syakamuni has spends so many Hundreds of Aeons to come to this stage, and he is only the 4th Buddha. (1 Aeon = Thousands and Thousands of Year)

And Although Mitreiya is coming soon, as the 5th, and Lama Tsongkhapa as the 15th and .......... so much more, and Lastly Varjapani should be the 1000th Buddha that will manifest in this world, Just imagine by that time, it is still so far to go man....

Maybe it will just ended up with a Big Bang, then bye bye earthlings, who knows? right?

Dont think about it so much man!

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Come on, I spent so long typing, at least support a bit by going in and give me some comment man!

Answer 9

According to Buddhism there are infinite number of Sathwa( Humans,gods,animals,etc..) who are in the Samsara.
Only few relative to infinite number will be able to understand Nirvana. It takes some time for one to get in to the correct way.
Thiking about those type of things is not wanted,
Lord Buddha has told there are some subjects we shold not think further and further because normal human beings like u and me can't understand those things.(Eg; Universe,World, karma ).
We have to practice the good things Lord Buddha has told us ,without thinking too much about things which would not give us the Nirvana.

Answer 10

you relatively shouldn't say flaws or inferior, this is particularly disrespectful. As for my perspectives, Buddhism is better than in simple terms a faith, this is a philosophy. i hit upon the 4 noble truths and the 8 fold path to be a extra the main suitable option thank you to stay ones existence than something the christians have arise with.