Do Air Force Senior Airmen have to stand at parade rest for Army Corporals?

Question

The answer to this question will only serve to settle a debate as I have since been promoted to Sergeant. I work with an E-4 in the Air Force (Senior Airman). In the Air Force, since the elimination of "buck sergeant", E-4s are not considered NCOs. The Army has two kinds of E-4s, Corporals, who are NCOs, and Specialists, who are not. The Senior Airman claims that the "Air Force does not recognize Corporals as NCOs because they're E-4s and in the Air Force, E-4s are not NCOs". Is this true? Please cite some appropriate Air Force literature which will back me up, not a funny story that happened to you in 1976 on an aircraft carrier.

This is to settle an idle dispute between us. I don't care if I *should* make him stand at parade rest, or if you *would* make him stand at parade rest. The question can be clarified to "Does the Air Force consider Army Corporals to be NCOs and therefore, entitled to all courtesies that go along with NCO status". If you can't cite some Air Force reg that I can check out, don't bother answering. Thank you.

For goodness sakes. I'm not about flaunting rank and going on a power trip. We got in a discussion about this and wanted to know the answer. Just like you might have a discussion with a pal about why is the sky blue. If someone gives me a link to a reg, whether I'm right or wrong, I'll show him, we'll say "Interesting" and carry on with business. It's not about trying to push someone around.

Answer 1

If an Air force SRA and a Army Corporal were in the same unit ( about the only time I think that would happen would be in special ops units IE: search and rescue, AF combat controllers or para rescue assigned to Army units) the Corporal would legally be senior to the SRA based on their NCO status. But, in those situations the people aren't rank conscious anyway.

In day to day dealings, an E-4 is an E-4, so unless the Corporal was assigned to a position of authority over the SRA, they would be equals.

Answer 2

B9 is correct in his assessment. There isn't any regulation requiring parade rest, only attention to a commisioned officer. Even in joint operations there isn't a division between NCO and jr enlisted.. In the Air Force, its not about your rank, but your position. It is not uncommon for an E-4 and E-3's to be in E-5 and E-6 slots, very unlike the army. Also, you might consider If he has a 5 level or have been to ALS, which would be the equivalent of PLDC, and which his responibilities would be equivalent to a Corporal in that he is officially allowed to be in charge of troops. In that, he may allready be your equivalent. Doesn't really matter either way. Its doing the job, and your reputation for geting it done that is important. And if your nit picking about that stuff, I'd say your a very jr NCO, and have a lot to learn, or you need to work a bit on your attitude and learn a bit about c&c in the AF. Good question though!

Thank you for your service, and see you at the fiddlers green..

Does he call you sir as well? lol

Answer 3

Air Force enlisted personnel are NOT required to stand in any particular manner when addressing another enlisted person, regardless of the other enlisted person's branch of service. It is a matter of courtesy to stand at a loose "Parade Rest" when being addressed by a Senior NCO, but it is NOT a requirement.

Enlisted personnel of ALL ranks and ALL services are required to stand at "Attention" when addressing or being addressed by a commissioned officer regardless of branch of service, and they are to remain at "Attention" until instructed otherwise by the commissioned officer.

Your Air force SrA is incorrect in his statement about the Air Force "not recognizing corporals as NCOs. It is true that an Air Force E-4 is not an NCO, but that doesn't mean that the Air Force doesn't recognize the other E-4 NCOs of the other branches of service.

And you, Sergeant, sound like you're on a bit of a power trip. The mark of a good NCO is one who realizes that the NCO is a leader of men, and that respect is something to be earned through actions and not demanded because of position. YOU have a higher responsibility to those of lower rank than those of lower rank have to you; YOU are the one who's supposed to be looking out for THEM, not concerning yourself with who's supposed to stand a certain way for you. If you shove your chevrons under someone's nose enough times, I can guarantee you two things: you'll never gain their trust and earn their respect, and sooner or later they're gonna shove those very same chevrons somewhere else.

If you want a document to review, check out the Air Force Instruction (the Army calls them regulations) on Drill and Ceremonies/Customs and Courtesies. Can't recall the number off the top of my head, but a Yahoo or Google search should bring it up.

Answer 4

On average, an AF E-4 does not stand at attention for any one less than a SNCO unless they're being dressed down, or at least officially addressed. It's just the way it goes. Regardless of what the airman thinks, if the Corporal has been assigned over the SrA, than the SrA is legally obligated to obey the Corporal. What is the working environment: is it an Army post, an AF post, or a joint post? Usually you go by whatever service is in charge for customs and curtesies. Joint posts are their own little nightmare. What was the matter that brough this to the fore?

Answer 5

A Corporal is an NCO but why would you stand at parade rest for one? Sounds like some one is on a power trip.

Answer 6

Corporal

I like the discussion, look an Army Corporal has been around forever.
Once ment something; for me "Airborne Infantry" one of the squad leaders in my platoon. Hell, many just went from PFC to Sgt in WWII, Korea and Vietnam, that "specialist" rank to me is a bit weird.

But in combat I had "senior aidmen" that were PFC's over SP4's,
Corporals, and even those SP/5 ranks. We just waited for the paperwork to come down, authority was vest by the LT or company commander.

In "joint ops" well whomever is appointed, assigned the honor regardless of rank: shall lead the squad, team, etc.

In Vietnam I had "issues" with some of my SP/5's and Marines not getting that they were Echo Five and not to burn "you know what", my contact in the 50's and 60's has me recall a "Sgt" in the USAF was an E-4? Whatever, the ones I knew flew as para-jumpers" men not to be messed with regardless of rank. We treated all USAF enlisted crewmembers of those "Jolly Greens" on our Army Airfield as "NCO's". they ate with the NCO) section in the messhall, why? simple professional courtesy:

Just a view from 45-40 years ago, but treat any man that is a squad leader or such as he deserves: lot of responsibility to place on a young soldier.

Another reason I liked Vietnam: snap my fingers and some PFC is an SGT E-5, screw the paperwork. I went from Corporal (E-4)
to Staff Sgt in one moment.

I am still on topic;

So back to my first 101st Airborne combat tour: I end up a SSg with a USMC unit as a "liason' as they were pulling us put of "deep do do". I took my rank off very fast: as I was well way to young, gained respect and love: I had a "Class Six" hard booze "ration card", yes I could buy gin, burbon, etc. and even USMC could not in Vietnam.

A Corporal is an NCO. In the British Army: no questions.

My USAF Master Sgt has it correct.

NCOship: new word is a brotherhood:

Do note that many US Army SP4's are posthumously promoted from Iraq, Corporal Pat Tillman being just one.

God bless him and his family. NFL to Airborne Ranger.

Answer 7

If not see who has had more time in grade, as a E-4. If your talking about when you enter a room, then No I was only told to do that for Officers and Senior NCO's. I really got pissed when some one tried to pull rank when they had a month longer in time in grade. Thats just plain dumb in my opinion so I did what I wanted.

Answer 8

An NCO in any branch, is considered an NCO in all other branches, the only ones who do not respect that are whiners and usually jealous. A Soldier is promoted to Corporal for a reason, he/she has proved themselves worthy of being a leader and trustworthy for the role as a Jr. Non Commissioned Officer. RESPECT IT!

Answer 9

Yes, you do go to parade rest for a corporal unless told to stand at ease by them. Army E-4 CPLs are NCOs. Every branch of service should recognize other branches rank but I don't think an Air Force E-4 really has to go to parade rest for an Army CPL though. I know I wouldn't! Oh by the way, that Aurora person is a moron!!!! Peace

Answer 10

I'll have to get back to you as hubby is in a training meeting.
He works directly with all branches and is a Sgt in the Army....

e4's in the AF are not nco's. sounds like a power trip according to hubby - when he becomes sgt, yes. AF can address him as sir.

hubby doesn't know about the parade rest - like i said sounds like power trip