What is your logic, atheists?

Question

I'm afraid I do not understand. Every question asked of every Atheist by a Christian is blocked by the defense of "Pascal's Gambit". Well I'm asking all Atheists why they are Atheists not as a Christian, but as a curious and equal person. You say "Well what if your god is the wrong one and then you are punished worse than us because we worshipped no god" By saying this you are in fact, saying that you believe that there is SOME god out there, and that you fear them. What if THAT god is the wrong god and an even different god strikes you down?

But....if you believe in no god at all....then what keeps you from killing yourself?

If you do the right things and are good people, and you follow no god...then this must mean you exalt yourself as god? You need no god and therefore think your better than that....to accept "crackpot" theories and weak "sheeple" following what comforts them and that anything celestial is for the weak? You took my question as offensive and I didn't mean it that way at all...I am 14 and just curious, so calm down.

Let me rephrase the suicide question. If you believe there is no god, then why not take the shortcut when things get bad and commit suicide? The thought of always knowing a trump card to eternal rest and peace seems pretty good to me.

Answer 1

No. We're NOT saying there is "some" god out there. We're making an argument. We're speaking as though gods exist for the sake of making a point. It doesn't imply genuine belief.

It's a legitimate challenge to Pascal's Wager. To assume there are only two options, non-belief or God, is a false dichotomy (which is a logical fallacy). There very well could be many many other options. I'm NOT saying I believe in any gods, but if the THEIST is going to gamble on belief in the Juedo-Christian deity, why not ALSO gamble on the existence of any number of other deities "just in case"?

Answer 2

Hi, good question; here's another Atheist's response:

I think you need to think about what not believing in God actually means. It simply means we think that there is nothing beyond the natural world. It doesn't mean we worship something else (such as ourselves).

If you think about "exalting ourselves as God", you could say the same thing about democracy. Jefferson, Franklin & co. didn't think King George (who was 'appointed by God') was their rightful ruler, so they elevated every citizen as co-ruler. If you were an English Royalist, you would consider that to be outright Blasphemy! But all they did was to recognize that people should be free.

Atheism is the same thing, why should we heed religious laws that we sometimes disagree with (eating pork; wearing burkas; being gay) when we don't think there's a God? I would like to see a Declaration of Religious Independence. All people of all religions, regions and languages still share a universal morality (don't kill, don't steal etc) that Atheists also adhere to.

Some people do commit suicide, but they do this when they're very much depressed. So much so that they are deemed to be sick. Atheists, like any other people, consider life precious and hang on to it as long as they can. You can look from it another way: if you believe in an afterlife, suicide is a shortcut to it. Whereas to an atheist, it ends the only life you're ever going to have.

Answer 3

There I was, just living my life. Interested in religion, philosophy, mythology, everything really. Then I read a definition of an 'atheist' and I thought, oh yes, that's what I think. So I guess I'm an atheist. There wasn't any 'logic' to it, it was just a label that fitted!

But just because I don't believe in god doesn't mean I don't think about the world around me. It's just that nothing I have seen, learnt or experienced to date has suggested to me that my assumption (that there is no such thing as god) is wrong.

In fact, the opposite. Having studied theology, philosophy and mythology I have found that there are thousands of stories about gods, goddesses, spirits and so on. And certainly nothing particularly different about the Christian story that suggests it's any more likely to be true than those about Odin, Mithras or any others once worshipped by thousands of followers.

So I suppose the 'logic', if it exists is along the lines of Occam's razor. The world, it seems to me, is quite well explained by the observable facts. So why would I feel the need to introduce anything else (particularly something 'inexplicable', 'unknowable' and 'incorporeal') to explain the workings of life, the universe and everything?!

I hope that helps!
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Answer 4

Yep, what Rune Amok says. Pascal's Wager is redundant in all cases. I was just showing how easy it is to demolish such a weak argument. Not very originally, and not the only way, but you people will insist on dragging it up.

I believe in what there is empirical evidence for. I don't assume something for which there is no evidence just because I don't have a better explanation at the time. If I lose my keys and can't work out why, I don't think "It must have been gremlins!". There is ZERO evidence for the existence of God, so I've no reason to beleive in one. It's as simple as that.

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There are no end of reasons why not to kill yourself just because there is no God. I'm really sorry if a belief in God is the only thing that gives you any purpose at all - but it shouldn't be like that. Life is good. Being alive is good. It doesn't need a god to make it any better. This promise of something wonderful after you die is a con. You need to realize the majesty of the world you are alive in NOW!

Answer 5

Believers assert that belief in god could have no ill effects. The 'wrong god' argument refutes this claim. This is its only purpose. It does not state that we believe there is a god and don't know which to worship.

As an example, let's take the case of a god I'll name J. Someone spends their entire life worshipping J, but in the end it turns out that the Christian god exists and J does not. In the Bible, it states that you should have no god above the Christian god, and thus J worshipper goes to hell. However, the opposite case is possible, that J exists and Christians go to the hell equivalent. This shows that belief in a god is not innately benign. It does not address the case where no God exists and does not preclude this possibility.

As for your suicide question, we get asked this a lot and I don't really know why. To me, it's simple logic that people who believe there's nothing after death would prize their life more highly. After all, it's all we get. No possibility for more, good or bad. As long as you're alive, there's a possibility for improvement, and in bad times we just hope for that. Death is not rest. Rest assumes conscience and is only useful in preparation for future activity. Death is nonexistence.

Answer 6

That's not why I'm an atheist. I am an atheist because at a very young age I decided that all the fairy tales and fear tactics were a bunch of rubbish and I could make my life better by being a good person and not judging everyone based on their beliefs. I think there is no god and I think it's fine that some peolple need that kind of comfort and guidance but it's not for me. I have everything I need in this world I don't need to look forward to anything else.

Answer 7

Atheists believe there is no god. People who don't know about whether there is a god are agnostic.
Pascal's Wager is a reason why a person should believe in a god. Atheists who know about it reject it.

...and as far as the "wrong god" goes, you wouldn't know. Extend Pascal's Wager, and pick the religion that gives (or purports to give) the greatest benefits at the lowest cost. I accept Pascal's reasoning, and have chosen Protestant Christianity as having great benefits at low cost.

Answer 8

Hope you bother to read this,

heres to trying to understand us ( gives a large round of applause for the intellegent kid trying to learn something and round of BOO'S! to the idiots who jumped on his case) -

I am aethist. what turned me away was the Religeon, I have come to hate the Religeon. ( definetion = the politics, the ceramonies, and the lack of questioning the bible and only following what the leaders of the church say without cracking the bible to take a look).

However, I have become self sufficent, i do not require GOD or gods, because I take the time to truly appreciate this life, the next who knows what will happen. Some of us aethists think its oblivion just nothing - others that we join some universal conscience, but we don't know. We do know that GOD as portrayed by religeon / christianity is an evil controling figure, as most dietys must be to be worshipped.

So, we take that control out of our life, and try to find out the truths of our own destinies, we strive to make the most out of THIS life instead of punishing ourselves for our own natures we embrace it.

Answer 9

We're not saying there is SOME god out there. There may be no god at all.

Pascal's wager is flawed and you would look silly if you give it as a good reason for believing in the Christian god. The truth is, we don't know which god exists, if any, and to "just believe" as a form of insurance is just plain dumb.

Answer 10

I can not believe in one creator and also believe in the many creators (humans especially but not exclusively) that I see before my eyes every day (you created the question, you are a creator!).

Either there is one God of which we are all part and free-will is an illusion...

or there is no God but many gods (of which each of us is one).

This is why I don't believe in the Christian idea of God (as I understand it anyway).

I don't kill myself because I enjoy life and want to experience what happens next...

or because God wills it (the other side of the coin!!!).