First let me say, I'm not out to bash or prove people wrong. I just want to know what the trinitarian belief(s) is/are on this particular event:
Jesus is in the water, the Father's voice comes from above, and the Holy Gost is descending.
What's happening here? Did God project Himself as separate for that moment or something?
I appreciate your answers.
2007-01-10 06:01:19 · 5 answers · asked by daisyk 6 in Society & Culture ➔ Religion & Spirituality
The Father's voice and the dove were a sign both to John the baptist and to those around him, and the dove itself was symbolic, (story of Noah, doves in sacrifice's, the nature in which one receives the Holy Spirit, etc...), And yes, the Holy Spirit, Jesus, and God the Father are 3 separate entities, but one person. Hard for us as humans to understand, its like being a father, a son, and a brother, but your still just you, only God has the power to project them separately. Each part of the Trinity has a specific function, Jesus the Son was God's human form, also born of God's power through a virgin, The Holy Spirit is the comforter, and provides guidance and discernment to Christians, and God the Father, well, hes God in his entirety, a side of him that we cannot even comprehend in our current state.
2007-01-10 06:08:50 · answer #1 · answered by ? 4 · 2⤊ 0⤋
Not entirely sure what you are asking, since there is a number of ways to answer this open ended question. Are you asking if this passage suggests that Jesus is not God, or if this passage suggests that God is really not a single deity?
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I suppose that the doctrine of the trinity is the only way to explain this passage. Otherwise it would have been impossible for God to be both in Heaven running the universe, and at the same time, be on Earth in human form, and at the same time, being the Holy Spirit shuttling back and forth from Heaven to Earth.
Most Christians agree that this passage is the main passage supporting the doctrine of the trinity since this is clearly a picture of God in three forms at once.
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...It is important to note that the baptism of Jesus does not parade three gods before us, but, as Warfield reminds us, three persons, whose Deity is strongly emphasised. The whole scene is explicitly supernaturalistic; Jesus’ baptism is attended with the opening of the heavens (Matthew 3:16). ...
...God, therefore, is speaking in Heaven, has descended from Heaven, and is descending from Heaven. The God who is above the waters is in the waters and comes down to the waters....
...Yet Matthew finds no incongruity between the Old Testament revelation of God – a revelation which singularly emphasised the unity of Jehovah (Deuteronomy 6:4) – and the New Testament’s unfolding trinitarianism. Matthew is among the New Testament writers of whom B.B. Warfield can say that...
...A voice speaks from Heaven. It is the voice of the Father of the One who is being baptised. Immediately, therefore, we are confronted with the reality that the Father of this Son is in Heaven while the Son of this Father is on earth.
Moreover, the voice of the Father highlights, first, the uniqueness of his relationship with this Son. ‘This one’, he declares, is my beloved. This is not the only son he has – for example, Israel is his son (a point already highlighted by Matthew in his intriguing use of Hosea 11:1 in 2:15). Yet this filial relationship supersedes all others. It is eternal, unchanging and essential to the very being of God. God would be God the Father even if Israel were not his son; but he could not be God the Father unless this Son was truly His Son.
So at the point of baptismal anointing, Jesus is already the Son of this Father. God is his Father, not by adoption but by nature. This Son was with the Father but is distinct from the Father, even as, to borrow from John 1:1, he was with God and was God.
Secondly, the voice of the Father highlights that their relationship is one of love. This is his ‘beloved’ Son, the one in whom he delights and in whom his love finds its perfect reciprocity. God is love (1 John 4:8), himself both the proper subject and the proper object of love. God is personal, and love binds the persons to one another. God is relational, and the relationships that exist in God are themselves a world of love.
Third, the voice of the Father highlights his delight in all that the Son does. Like Wisdom, exulting in the knowledge that she was daily the delight of God (Proverbs 8:30), the Son is the constant delight of the Father. In the Son the Father is well pleased. He has the Father’s approval from the outset. In the drama of this baptism is made explicit what Isaiah reveals but sees so very dimly, that God says of God: ‘behold my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights’ (Isaiah 42:1)....
2007-01-10 16:42:40 · answer #2 · answered by Randy G 7 · 0⤊ 0⤋
The baptism of Jesus has strong evidence that Jesus is not God.
First as you said we have God in heaven speaking. (Titus 1:2, God cannot or does not lie)
His own words He says "this is my Son."
He doesn't say this is me in human form.
If Jesus was God, he would have had to be God since birth, but it wasn't until the holy spirit came upon Jesus that he had godly powers.
In the scriptures when we see visions of God, or when angels appear to mankind, or in the book of Revelation we see the spirit creature called Jesus in vision,
All are represented in human form.
When the holy spirit comes upon Jesus it is not represented as a human, but a dove.
Why because the spirit of God, literally means the breath of God.
The spirit of God, or holy spirit is not a person but God's breath / force that he uses to accomplish His will.
If you blow out a candle, did some person come out of you and extinguishes the flame or was it your breath?
The spirit of God is liken to the hand of, finger of, breath of God.
Even in those scriptures that refer to the holy spirit as 'helper' the understanding of these verses have to be harmony with all the scriptures.
2007-01-10 14:56:28 · answer #3 · answered by TeeM 7 · 1⤊ 1⤋
The best definition I have ever seen is that God is"One God in three Persons".
Hope that helps.
2007-01-10 14:10:03 · answer #4 · answered by Proverbs 1:7 2 · 1⤊ 0⤋
Good logic! The Trinity doctrine in not taught in the bible.
2007-01-10 14:07:06 · answer #5 · answered by Anonymous · 1⤊ 1⤋