How many people here have any knowledge of European Medieval Martial Arts?

Question

Just about all we hear about here is regarding MMA, actors, wannabe ninjas, pretend martial artists who claim to punch out throats and break bones on a regular basis and Asian styles and so precious little about European styles, or WMA.

Now, I do not seek any answers along the lines of "All they did is hack and slash" or "Only Asia ever develloped martial arts" kind of answers.

I mean, who here could give me a comparative opinion on the swordsmanship styles thought by Fiore dei Liberi and Johannes Lichtenhauer? Or a commentary on Plate 226 in Mark Rector's translation of Talhoffer fechtbuch? Or their opinion regarding interpretation of the plates in MS I:33? These are martial arts style as valid as anything from any Asian country, after all.

Answer 1

I am familiar with all of them and have focused much on liechtehaur (as interpreted by sigmund rigneck) but have not really examined dei liberi much. Fact is there are a few people here that actively train WMA or have at some point.

My particular favorite WMA techniqe was from the codex wallerstien called "robbbing a peasant" where you are instructed how to make it appear that you slit someone's throat without actually doing it to kill them. Ideally so the peasant thinks they are dead and the drunken a-hole noble bratty children can get a good laugh off of the peasant's horror.

The vast majority of weapons questions are about modern day knife applications or gun or something like that. And the vast majority of sword related questions are well just plain stupid.

This bieng yahoo answers however we have to remember that in actuality there are no stupid questions, only stupid people.

If you wish to bring up a WMA specific question by all means do so, but the more technical the less response you will get. Might I suggest instead asking at swordforum.com or bullshido.net (they have a weapons section and I know of two posters off hand that have trained in WMA).

There probably are only a few people on this site who have even heard of george silver or meyer.

Personally I did not like the talhoffer fightbook (I admit to being a snob and went into it biased because it said one of the goals was to assist people doing stage combat), I did find I:33 interesting but did not get into single handed straight blade as much as I would have liked before I stopped training WMA as frequently. Now I pretty much still only spar once in a while.

Answer 2

Wrestling (duck! I am sure I am starting a fight) is not a marital art, at least as it is defined in the 21st century, however, besides wrestling, the ancient Greeks recorded the equivalent of katas and there is a modern Greek martial art. Did the "art" come from the East to Greece (say along the Silk Road) or travel the other direction? I am sure there will be a lot of ink spilled on that question some day. See if you can link Qi and pneuma in concept, at least. World culture was mixing long before the EU or NAFTA. Who here cannot see the Russian Dolls dancing in the Nut Cracker and not think of kickboxing? It is the "art" part that is unique. How about Native American martial arts (war dances?) Undoubtably much that was not written down, and even much that once was written has been lost. How about the English not allowing the Irish to use their hands in dance. . . .or the advent of Capoera. Who is to say that an ancient "European" martial art form does not survive today? Albeit in a hidden form.

Answer 3

May I suggest you look up your local SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) group? A large part of that broad-based re-enactment group's focus is European martial arts of the middle ages. The "Heavy" fighters re-create a style that is to broadsword what fencing is to rapier. There is also a very strong rapier community (local groups often have names like "Academy of Defense") who would be able to answer a lot of your questions because that is what they focus on.

There are also a number of other medieval history re-enactment groups who are several levels above your standard "ren-faire" level. My brother belongs to one called the Academy of European Martial Arts (AEMMA) in Toronto.

Also, check out this link:
http://www.hemac.org/

I think you'll find it useful.

Answer 4

Look dude, i don't have a clue what you're referring to. But, russians have wrestling, french have kick boxing, brazilians have grappling.

If you want to be technical on the history of your typical run of the mill punching and kicking art like.......karate/kempo/quanfa/te etc... than you can thank India for coming up with it........oh but wait!!!

There were glyph's found in a pyramid in egypt depicting self defense techniques!!!

Martial art........look it up in the dictionary, websters, it will tell you........
Main Entry: martial art
Function: noun
: any of several arts of combat and self defense (as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sport
- martial artist noun

nice eh? but if you look both of the words up seperately you get:

Main Entry: mar·tial
Pronunciation: 'mär-sh&l
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin martialis of Mars, from Mart-, Mars
1 : of, relating to, or suited for war or a warrior
2 : relating to an army or to military life
3 : experienced in or inclined to war : WARLIKE
- mar·tial·ly /-sh&-lE/ adverb


Main Entry: 2art
Pronunciation: 'ärt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin art-, ars -- more at ARM
1 : skill acquired by experience, study, or observation
2 a : a branch of learning: (1) : one of the humanities (2) plural : LIBERAL ARTS b archaic : LEARNING, SCHOLARSHIP
3 : an occupation requiring knowledge or skill
4 a : the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects; also : works so produced b (1) : FINE ARTS (2) : one of the fine arts (3) : a graphic art
5 a archaic : a skillful plan b : the quality or state of being artful
6 : decorative or illustrative elements in printed matter


how old is "martial arts"? Probably much older than we think.

Answer 5

Savate is one (French Foot Fighting).

http://www.savateontario.ca/about-history.html

Answer 6

You just don't get the same crowd at a cage-fight as you do at a Renaissance Faire.

Answer 7

hahha most ppl here dont know anything about any martial arts.