free thinkers, atheists, agnostics, evolutionists, whatever you call yourselves by, have you thought of this?

Question

Now let me make my stand very clear: I am not here to debate on, or advertise Pascal's Wager, but how many of you have really given it a thought? If you found out too late that God is real, what would you end up with?

Throw the ball back at me, and i'll tell you realisticly and honestly (though unlikely, given the modern evidences and findings), that if Christianity isn't real, then i'll just die when i die, as simple as that.

have you thought of that possibility and its implicaitons, or have you been closed to that idea, and have never given it a thought?

PS. i know how sacarstic and witty the non-believers here can be, but do the real atheists a favour, don't label yourself as one of them if you're going to give a rude answer on their behalf.

I'm genuinely curious about how you guys think, that's all, thanks in advance for the kind answers.

immediately, the first answerer comes to debate on the Pascal's Wager. Great, to what extent can a person evade a topic?

For pride, almost all are in denial, only some are brave enough to face the question straight in the face and give the simple answer. Is it really that hard to give an answer to a "what if" question?

I mentioned Pascal's Wager because my question is similar to his theory, not to advocate or suggest he is correct, period.

My faith did not begin when i knew of the concept of the Saviour who will bring us to Heaven instead of hell. In fact, when i first knew of that, i evaded Christianity. I only came to Christianity because of what He did for us, not because im worried of going to hell.

For those that want to evade, what else can i do but watch you evade the possibility with fanciful words, without even giving it a thought? I just hope you won't find retracting your words too tough an issue.

For the last time i'm repeating this, in case some were so quick to answer they missed my first sentence. I'm differentiating the question from Pascal's Wager in advance, because his theory is similar to my question. However, my real question is, what if?

Quit giving me the details of his wager, i don't even know the details nor will i be interested, just give me the "what if" answer, or continue to evade the thought with carefully constructed words.

barry, God as in the Holy Trinity.

Answer 1

If god is real, then I'd go to hell. Simple as that.

Answer 2

EDIT: > "If you found out too late that God is real, what would you end up with?"

Well, that depends on which god is real, and what his motives are, doesn't it?"


(since you're basically saying that either the christian god exists or none does, you're getting the standard reply. sorry. )

Pascal's wager:

"If god exists, it's infinitely better to believe, since you get heaven instead of hell for eternity. If he doesn't, it doesn't matter since you're dead anyway. So overall it's better to believe"

This is, of course, false.

Some of the problems with the argument:

* The implied assumption that god may exist (with a 50% probability, no less!)

* The assumption that there is an afterlife with a heaven and hell

* The assumption that the god cares about belief in him/her above all else

* The assumption that if you believe in a god, it will definitely be the same god that actually exists.

* The assumption that you lose nothing if it's false. You have lost a great deal, from time praying to a nonexistent entity (somebody mentioned just today praying several hours a day!!!) to morality (your god may ask you to hurt other people) and much more besides.

* The assumption that people can believe in something simply because it benefits them. Would you believe goblins exist for twenty bucks? Why not?

* The assumption that any god won't see through the "believing just to get into heaven" ploy.

For more:
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/wager.html
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/theism/wager.html

Answer 3

First of all my friend, your generalization (free thinkers, atheists, agnostics, evolutionists, whatever you call yourselves by) shows clearly that you must be one of those blind-folded, arrogant, Christian bigots who believe they know everything and that all those who think differently are just idiots. Where is your Christian tolerance, I wonder?;) All the categories that you just demeaned by gneralizing are VERY different from each other for your information; and EACH of them deserves the SAME respect.

Second: God is not real for me since I'm an Atheist, so 'too late to find out' doesn't exist since there's nothing to be found out and therefore I can't possibly be late in finding it out. What miraculous findings are you talking about my friend??? The only available evidences are the historical, archeological and scientific ones which prove that Christianity cannot be proved and it's therefore not likely to be true;) Faith (an irrational inner state of conscience) is the ONLY 'evidence' Christians have on their side.

Third: When you die, you die. Clear enough?

Fourth: Pascal Wager? Total nonsense.

P.S. I'm not being rude, I'm an Atheist, a seeker and a tolerant person too; you should learn how to control your arrogance instead, if you don't want to deal with sarcasm. Hope my explaination of what I, as an Atheist, think was clear enough. You're welcome.

Answer 4

Yes, I've thought about it. The same as I've considered that not believing in Allah would send me to hell, Not believing in Zeus would send me to Hades, and not believing in the Invisible Pink Unicorn (pbuh) would get me trampled under her mighty hooves.

That goes for you too. Have you considered what would happened if you chose the wrong god. There are so many other religions besides Xianity. Why do you assume you picked the right one?

That being said, why should fear be good motivation to follow a faith. It just makes me wonder how may Xians are simply cowards afraid to face the unknown and faking a belief for that reason?

p.s. I am SO sick of Pascal's Wager....but you brought it up and how can we explain how we feel without addressing it?

Answer 5

Franky I find the attitude in your follow-up questions spectacularly immature, combative, and rude. Particularly when asking a purely rhetorical question, askers should surely welcome answerers debating the issues underlying a topic such as this.

However, to answer your question, I reckon if a God of final eternal judgement does exist, I will indeed be made to eat my words and find myself in a whole (after?) world of trouble.

Frankly, given all the time I have spent reading up on and thinking about this very issue, I am prepared to take my chances.

eldad9: some interesting points in your "standard reply", but I am unsure of the first three:

* The implied assumption that god may exist (with a 50% probability, no less!)

* The assumption that there is an afterlife with a heaven and hell

* The assumption that the god cares about belief in him/her above all else

To me, these all read as truisms. The wager clearly depends on all three of these being possibilities, but that is in the nature of it. It does not seem to me to be valid to attack it on these grounds. I would be interested to discuss this further if you'd care to get in touch.

The main problem with Pascal's Wager (and as - by Cosmos' own admission - the question is "similar to [the] theory", I do not consider it inappropriate to discuss this) has already been alluded to in eldad9's answer, though I would state it slightly differently. Pascal's Wager depends on a definition of belief with which I am highly uncomfortable. It seems to assume that one can believe in something purely by virtue of WANTING to believe in it. For example, while I would love to believe in eternal paradise after death, I simply do not believe it to be a rational possibility. Wanting it to be true is simply not enough to make it true. Similarly, wanting to believe in God simply to hedge one's bets cannot be said to be true belief, and surely this would not satisfy a God that demanded true belief.

(Apologies if there are typos etc in this answer. I have to go to work, and consequently haven't had a chance to read through it.)

Answer 6

How do I clarify existence? properly i'd desire to grant you with a protracted properly-theory-out answer yet simply by fact it does not contain any deity the doorways of your strategies could slam close formerly you had examine previous the 1st sentence. If Allah / Jehovah needed to instruct his existence he could, and there could be no debate approximately it. instead we've particularly some ambiguous conflicting texts that have survived with the aid of a mix of random possibility, enhancing, political expediency and militia conquest. I certainly have a query. in accordance to Islam the Quran archives the revelation that replaced into given to the prophet Mohammed throughout or following encounters with a supernatural being claiming to be the angel Gabriel. Assuming for a 2d that those encounters certainly occurred, what information do you have that this being replaced into certainly Gabriel? on account which you think in devil, and you think that devil is the super deceiver, why do you think of that devil does not manage to posing as Gabriel so as to create a faux faith?

Answer 7

What is Pascal's Wager? I've never heard that phrase before.
Anyway, on to you're question (and note that I'm a christian).
You're targeting atheists, and generally people who don't believe in god. why those people specifically? I mean, what about people from all the different religions from around the world.
Jews, Hindu's, Muslims, and so on. Like those who do not believe in god, they do not follow the christian belief. what if they're wrong? what will happen to them?
I just think you have to consider the bigger picture and accept that there a lot of people who do not believe in god, and a lot who believe in a different god. And that that is their right and choice.

Answer 8

God.... to me is a belief. If ones belief that God exist then God is real. I only have a problem when God followers try to force God to me. God can not be forced but only accepted. Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of noble God followers too. I used to have a lot of problem when the idea of GOD is mentioned but now..... I look at God followers intention. Don't know if there's life after death. Heaven and Hell exist in our hearts. If we abuse everything around us, then our world is a "living hell". On the contrary, if we try to make this world a better place, then it's euphoria.

Answer 9

Thought of it. Pascal's wager is a cop out if free will exists. If motive is considered, it means nothing. If that's the criterion, you set, you ignored Matthew 6:7-8.

Answer 10

Pascals wager is basically that you can scam your way past God into heaven.
It only works if you believe you have the right God and that he is so much stupider than you that you can pull a fast one on him.
How can any "believing" be based on a premise so blatantly cynical as Pascal's Wager?

Answer 11

Pascal's wager doesn't make sense if you believe that you're saved by faith.

Pascal's wager suggests that you "believe" in order to avoid the possibility that non-belief will send you to hell. It seems to me that this amounts to going through the motions to cover you bases. It's not real faith, it's just jumping through the hoops. It's pretending faith to avoid punishment. So if real faith is required for salvation you won't get there through Pascal's wager.