check your bibles.?

Question

And he shall be a "wild ***" of a man; his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him..."

Genesis 16:12

based on the biblical text above which really discriminating the ancestors of the arabs....

But the problem lies here :

..., meaning "wild ***", does not appear in Hebrew literature until 1,000 years after the Torah was written.

Somebody's lying...Probably the biblical translators are....
so what is the correct translation from the original hebrew text without vowels for Genesis 16:12 :

"... he will be a fruitful man: his hand shall be with everyone, and every man's hand shall be with him..." (!!)


If you don't believe me, visit :
http://www.ark-of-salvation.org/covenant_2003.htm
http://www.ark-of-salvation.org/wild_***_2003.htm


If you don't believe me, send an e-mail enquiry at this jewish guy named Dr Ken Biegeleisen's, the author of the book
"Me,whom You Have pierced " at
[e-mail]

Answer 1

In Genesis 16:12 the word is PRA, which means donkey, whereas the word for fruitful is PRH. The article in your link argues that PRA is an acceptable variant spelling for PRH but he keeps quoting verses where PRH (fruitful) is used as though they are proof that PRH can be spelt PRA, when all those verses he quotes spell it PRH (in Hifil forms of PRH, the H drops out, if it was PRA then the A would still be there, but it isn't, which indicates that the root was PRH and not PRA!).

The best evidence that he has is Hosea 13:15 where it does seem that the root form of the verb is PRA.

Another text he could have cited but didn't is Genesis 49:22 where Jacob is blessing his sons and says of Joseph that he will be a fruitful son (ESV, NIV, NRS, YLT, LXX, KJV) or perhaps a son of donkeys or a wild àss (JPS Tanakh 1985, Word Bib. Com.). Interpreters are not sure which one it is. However, that is a very hard verse to interpret and whichever way you try it presents difficulties.

But even given the possibility that PRH could be spelt PRA, if the writer of Genesis 16:12 was trying to say that Ishmael would be a fruitful man then the likely way he would have said it would be to use "fruit" (PRI) as a noun with "man" in construct with it, so he would have said literally "a man of fruit" (compare Psalm 107:34 where fruitful land is "a land of fruit" or Psalm 107:37, where a bountiful harvest is "fruit-produce") and the "fruit" there would be the noun, spelt PRI and not PRA or PRH.

Another way he could have said it would be to use the active participle of the verb "to be fruitful" as an adjective. In this case it would literally say that Ishmael would be "a man [who is] fruiting" (compare Psalm 128:3 where a fruitful vine is "a vine [that is] fruiting"). The qal active participle masculine singular of PRA / PRH would be spelt the same as the root in the non-vowelled text, but in terms of word order it should come after the noun, not before it, so instead of PRA ADM as we have in the Bible, it should be ADM PRA.

I am no expert on Hebrew so i can't say for sure, but from what little i know it sill looks to me that in Genesis 16:12 "donkey" is more likely than "fruitful", though admittedly "fruitful" could fit in that context, as a re-iteration of what the angel of the LORD has just said about multiplying Hagar's offspring.

As for that other stuff about interpreting YDO BKL VYD KL BO as "his hand shall be with everyone, and every man's hand shall be with him" instead of the more usual interpretation of "his hand shall be against everyone, and everyone's hand against him", i don't think his translation of B as "with" works here because when B is used with "hand" it usually means the hand is "against" rather than "with" someone.

See for example Deuteronomy 2:15 "For indeed the hand of the LORD was AGAINST them ("BM"), to destroy them from the camp, until they had perished"; Deuteronomy 2:15 "Your hand shall be first AGAINST him (BO) to put him to death", see also Genesis 37:27; Deut. 17:7; Judges 2:15; Ruth 1:13; 1Sam 5:9; 1Sam 7:13; 1Sam 12:15; 1Sam 24:12-13...... the list goes on and on.

On the other hand, if he had wanted to say that the hand of Ishmael would be WITH everyone, then he would have used "im" and not B to mean "with". For example: 2Samuel 3:12 "my hand shall be with ('im') you" or Psalm 89:21 "my hand shall be established with ('im') him".

I have so far not found any cases of B used to mean "with" in the context of saying someone's hand is with someone else.

Thus, it is in fact saying that Ishmael's hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him.

Answer 2

Obviously, translators try to find a word in English that best fits what was written in the Hebrew text.
For example, "day" is used when God created all things,
but in Hebrew they didn't have a word for a 24 hour day.
When hand is used when Jesus Christ was put up on the
cross, the word for hand in Greek also included the wrist,
which is where Jesus was actually pierced.

There is nothing wrong with the Bible. There
are reasonable answer to all so called problems of the Bible.
Just read people who have spent their life studing the
Bible.

Answer 3

Gosh, and you are only into Genesis, imagine how many more changes have been made to the original texts. What a deceptive lot those Biblical translators are and for what purpose - I think there's some quote and I don't know who by = keep the peasants stupid!

Answer 4

incorrect:

12 Modern Hebrew
והוא יהיה פרא אדם
ידו בכל ויד כל בו
ועל־פני כל־אחיו
ישכן׃

Hebrew Transliterated
16:12 VHV'a YHYH PhUr'a 'aDM YDV BKL VYD KL BV V'yL-PhNY KL-'aChYV YShKN.
Latin Vulgate
16:12 hic erit ferus homo manus eius contra omnes et manus omnium contra eum et e regione universorum fratrum suorum figet tabernacula
King James Version
16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

Answer 5

Ishmael is the one that will be wild. He was not to be the chosen one, because Sarah and Abraham couldn't wait on God. They chose to go ahead of His plans. The Arabs believe that Ismael is the one Abraham took up on the Mt. to slay. Issac was the chosen on of God. That is why we are fighting today. They believe that Ishmael is the true one. All others are wrong in their eyes.

Answer 6

Until the bible is proven 100% accurate which is virtually impossible you can't use it as evidence.

Answer 7

Uh, what?