Can a Trinitarian explain this?

Question

22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Jesus(pbuh) was a MAN approved by God. If Jesus is God, did God approve of God? I thought God was supposed to be in Jesus not in the sky.
Take a look:
Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
So God is not a man, and never will be a man. Jesus had limits, did not know the unseen, and even cried like a man. God crying like a man?

ES how does that even apply?

ES Jesus cried, does God cry, is that the nature of God?

Southwind, according to your Bible, Jesus did not die on the cross.

Southwind, according to your Bible, Jesus did not die on the cross.

Answer 1

"You're taking it out of context"

I just wanted to beat them to it.

Jesus is a man.

Jesus worshippers will bend the words and invent logic to support their beliefs.

That's what people do.

Answer 2

God is a trinity of persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc., and these are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God. (See also, "Another Look at the Trinity")
Jesus, the Son, is one person with two natures: Divine and Human. This is called the Hypostatic Union. The Holy Spirit is also divine in nature and is self aware, the third person of the Trinity.
There is, though, an apparent separation of some functions among the members of the Godhead. For example, the Father chooses who will be saved (Eph. 1:4); the Son redeems them (Eph. 1:7); and the Holy Spirit seals them, (Eph. 1:13).
A further point of clarification is that God is not one person, the Father, with Jesus as a creation and the Holy Spirit is a force (Jehovah's Witnesses). Neither is He one person who took three consecutive forms, i.e., the Father, became the Son, who became the Holy Spirit. Nor is God the divine nature of the Son (where Jesus had a human nature perceived as the Son and a divine nature perceived as the Father (Oneness theology). Nor is the Trinity an office held by three separate Gods (Mormonism).
The word "person" is used to describe the three members of the Godhead because the word "person" is appropriate. A person is self aware, can speak, love, hate, say "you," "yours," "me," "mine," etc. Each of the three persons in the Trinity demonstrate these qualities.
The chart below should help you to see how the doctrine of the Trinity is systematically derived from Scripture. The list is not exhaustive, only illustrative.
The first step is to establish the biblical doctrine that there is only one God. Then, you find that each of the persons is called God, each creates, each was involved in Jesus' resurrection, each indwells, etc. Therefore, God is one, but the one God is in three simultaneous persons. Please note that the idea of a composite unity is not a foreign concept to the Bible; after all, man and wife are said to be one flesh. The idea of a composite unity of persons is spoken of by God in Genesis (Gen. 2:24).

There is only one God

The first step is to establish how many Gods exist: one! Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8; 45:5,14,18,21,22; 46:9; 47:8; John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:5-6; Gal. 4:8-9
"I am the LORD, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).
“Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel And his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me," (Isaiah 44:6).

"I am the Lord, and there is no other; besides Me there is no God, (Isaiah 55:5).

The Trinity


FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT
Called God Phil. 1:2 John 1:1,14; Col. 2:9 Acts 5:3-4
Creator Isaiah 64:8 John 1:3; Col. 1:15-17 Job 33:4, 26:13
Resurrects 1 Thess. 1:10 John 2:19, 10:17 Rom. 8:11
Indwells 2 Cor. 6:16 Col. 1:27 John 14:17
Everywhere 1 Kings 8:27 Matt. 28:20 Psalm 139:7-10
All knowing 1 John 3:20 John 16:30; 21:17 1 Cor. 2:10-11
Sanctifies 1 Thess. 5:23 Heb. 2:11 1 Pet. 1:2
Life giver Gen. 2:7: John 5:21 John 1:3; 5:21 2 Cor. 3:6,8
Fellowship 1 John 1:3 1 Cor. 1:9 2 Cor. 13:14; Phil. 2:1
Eternal Psalm 90:2 Micah 5:1-2 Rom. 8:11; Heb. 9:14
A Will Luke 22:42 Luke 22:42 1 Cor. 12:11
Speaks Matt. 3:17; Luke 9:25 Luke 5:20; 7:48 Acts 8:29; 11:12; 13:2
Love John 3:16 Eph. 5:25 Rom. 15:30
Searches the heart Jer. 17:10 Rev. 2:23 1 Cor. 2:10
We belong to John 17:9 John 17:6 . . .
Savior
1 Tim. 1:1; 2:3; 4:10 2 Tim. 1:10; Titus 1:4; 3:6 . . .
We serve Matt. 4:10 Col. 3:24 . . .
Believe in John 14:1 John 14:1 . . .
Gives joy . . .
John 15:11 John 14:7
Judges John 8:50 John 5:21,30 . . .

Answer 3

Isaiah 9:6 is a prophecy of the coming Messiah.

If you follow the verse closely, you will see that the child coming is the Son promised.
The Son is the everlasting Father,
The Son is the mighty God.
The Son is the wonderful counselor (a role of the Holy Spirit)

Father, Son, Holy Spirit = The Holy Trinity

God is not like a man because men change their minds. They break promises. They say they will do something and then they do not do what they have said.
That is not the character of God. That is human nature.
Jesus has a Divine nature, yet He can be grieved and saddened.
Jesus was made sin for us, and for a brief moment, God could not look upon Him because sin cannot stand before God.
It is one of the nysteries of Christian faith. We shall not have clear understanding until we are in His presence.

Answer 4

Numbers 23:19 is very interesting. For Jesus did not lie nor did He change His mind, but did the will of God, or perhaps His will was the will of God.

You see, this very verse is a demonstration of His being God, if you don't doubt by religious prejudice.

I respect your argument, but believe that Christians will see it in a way that directly opposes yours.

Jesus was both fully man and fully God. Not all of one, but lacking the other. Jesus had no limits. If you are open minded, you will accept that Christians believe that He freely accepted His death and rose from the grave. Knew of Heaven. And cried, suffered with people, for them, when there was a loss. This gives validity to your emotions. Amen.


And, by the way, my Bible clearly expresses that Jesus died and rose from the dead. And so does 2000 years of Catholic Tradition.

Answer 5

All the Trinity means is that Like you & your father & your son are humans, Jesus, his Father & the Holy Ghost are all Gods. The son of a God is a God so Jesus as the Son of God is A God. Next, the same way a President of a company can choose a vice-president & say "Look, this man has my full approval 2 act on my behalf. If he fires u, it is so. If u want a cheque signed, his signature is as good as mine. Dont come 2 me. What he says or does has my full approval & is as though I have done it."
This is what the Trinity is about. Three in one. Three separate Gods that have all authority. The Father has given full approval & authority 2 his Son & the Holy Ghost 2 act on his behalf. So they are all the same. Going 2 the Son 2 be saved is like going 2 the Father or the Holy Ghost. Anyone of them can save u or condemn u.
The verse has just been translated badly & so has been misinterpreted.

Answer 6

old KJ version of the Bible
Ps. 83:18
That men may know that ,thou,whose name alone is JE-HO-VAH, art the most high over all the earth.

It states alone not with Jesus or the holy spirit.

this is for james p
When the jewish religious leaders acuse Jesus of breaking the Sabbath, He answers "my father has kept working until now and I keep working" Despite the claim of the Pharisees Jesus work is not of the type forbidden by Sabbath law. His work of preaching and healing is an assignment from God, and in imitation of Gods example, he keeps on doing it daily.However, his answer makes the Jews even angrier than they were before, and they seek to kill him. Why? It is because now they not only believe that Jesus is breaking the Sabbath but consider his claim of being Gods personal son to be blasphemy. However, Jesus is unafraid and answers them further regarding his favored relationship with God "The Father has affection for the Son," he says, "and shows him all the things he himself does""just as the father raises the dead up "Jesus contionues"so the Son also makes those alive whom he wants to"Indeed,the son is aleady raising the dead in a spiritual way! "He that hears my word and believes him that sent me"Jesus says"has passed over from death to life" Yes he continues:"the hour is coming and it is now when the dead will hear the voice of the son of God and those who have given heed will live"

Answer 7

Do not listen to those who call Jesus God, Jesus is his Son, he had a prehuman existence in heaven with his Father the only true God, Yahweh, Jesus is a created being, the first thing God created, an only begotten Son, he is in reality, Michael the Archangel. God transferred his life into the womb of Mary to be born as a perfect human who could pay the ransom sacrifice to redeem sinful mankind, the life he gave was equal to that of Adam's before he sinned against God. God resurrected Jesus back to spirit life three days after his death so he could return to his Father in heaven where Jesus offered his perfect human life that was taken from him to pay the ransom to his Father for sinful mankind. Jesus now sits at his Father's right hand side.

Answer 8

You said: Jesus(pbuh) was a MAN approved by God. If Jesus is God, did God approve of God? I thought God was supposed to be in Jesus not in the sky.

I say : This is a reference to your own Quran not the Christian Bible. The Old testament foretells of Jesus coming, the Messiah, the Christ. The New Testament shows the Prophecy come true.

You said: So God is not a man, and never will be a man. Jesus had limits, did not know the unseen, and even cried like a man. God crying like a man?
referring to Numbers 23:19 in the Old Testament.

If you read the whole Chapter from the beginning, this verse is spoken to Balaam by God who spoke it to Balak to show Balak that God does not lie like a man and that His Word is perfect and He says what he means. This is spoken because God has Blessed Isreal and Balak wants God to curse them.

I say: Numbers 23:8 How shall I curse him whom God has not cursed? And how shall I rage at him at whom Jehovah has not raged?

Balaam is explaining to Balak that God has already blessed Isreal and can not now lie or go back on His word and Curse them.

Jesus is God made flesh. God came down to earth as a man to lead us all to Heaven by His perfect sacrifice of flesh and blood.

By the way, as a Catholic Christian (Trinitarian) I respect your opinions and views. I respect Islam and Judaism and feel that there is a place for all of us to stand united side by side. God Bless you.

Answer 9

Numbers 23 refers to God's nature, essence, or ontology. God, as God, isn't a man. He is Spirit. However, this God - in the person of Jesus Christ - became a man (without ceasing to be God). And, as a man, He had the same limitations as other men had. But, if you look closer at the New Testament & read all of it (not just the parts that agree with your theology), you'd see that Jesus also had traits that no human man has. He knew all things in one aspect & didn't know things in another aspect. How is this explained? Easily. Jesus is one person with two natures. In Christology, this is called the Hypostatic Union. As God & Man, Jesus knew all things in one sense (as God) and Jesus was limited in His knowledge in another sense (as Man).

Answer 10

The Bible is a book that's in dialogue with itself. You appear to feel that the Numbers text is in contradiction of the Acts text, or vice versa, based on an analysis prompted by your study of logic, and that that contradiction in some way invalidates the Trinity (you prefer Numbers to Acts, and perhaps either Numbers or Acts to the Trinity). It must be obvious, however, that we are fingering two huge traditions here, and ignoring a third. The first (Nm) says that God is vastly transcendent--a God above the God we can know, above the God of history, etc. The second (Ac) says that, in an effort to comprehend and appropriate a massive incursion of the Spirit at Pentecost, Peter directs discussion toward Jesus's Messianic status, tragic end, resurrection and proof of the trustworthiness of God's promises to humanity. But thirdly, new information is reflected in Acts: that God has held nothing in reserve (He gave His only-begotten Son). God's absoluteness and outside-this-world nature IS compromised, to human sight, by the decision to become human. Apparently, however, God perceives some advantage vis-a-vis Godly purpose in doing so, some greater stature, some increment in power. -- Suffice it for us to cite the Reverse Trinity. Twice in the writings of Paul we hear it stated: we enter the spirit fellowship of a congregation; there we learn about Jesus Christ; and through Jesus Christ we encounter God. -- Get shed of your extremely narrow understanding of biblical inerrancy.

Answer 11

Well, this certainly shows the danger of reading a single Bible verse and taking it out of context. Just go down a few verses (Acts 2:25) and read:

David said about him:
" 'I saw the Lord always before me.
Because he is at my right hand,
I will not be shaken.
34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said,
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
35until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet." '[g]

36"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

This is clearly not just a man we're talking about. One explanation is that Peter was reaching the people where they were at the time. All you have to do is read outside this one verse and you will find enough references to Jesus as being way more than a man or an angel. Try Hebrews chapters 1 and 2.

As to God crying, the Bible is full of references to God's heart being grieved.

For your reference to Numbers 23:19, God is certainly not just a man. Nobody said that. I could turn that around and say that it is true that Numbers says God doesn't change his mind; but the Bible has many places in which it says that God changed his mind, relented of what he was going to do."

Now, an atheist would cry "contradiction! contradiction!" But that's an ignorant response, made by one who has no desire to understand more. You, as a theist, should at least want to understand the full counsel of God, as much as our limited minds can understand. Don't tell me the Bible was corrupted. To believe that, you'd have to believe in such an extent of corruption as to change virtually every single chapter in the Bible. People can believe many things, but that seems to me to be nonsense.