Live: Theological Wresting Match (Lutheran vs. Greek Orthodox)?

Question

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Where do they differ? They are both big on liturgy and tradition I know. What else do they share? I'm trying to decide which church fits me best and as a conservative Christian I know that both churches are faithful to Biblical teachings. What would most surprise a Lutheran about Greek Orthodoxy and visa versa?

Answer 1

The Lutherans actually tried to join the Greek Orthodox Church back in the day. Little known fact.

As for the differences, there are more than you might think. Orthodox theology differs significantly from Roman Catholic/Protestant theology. The Lutherans are far closer to the Roman Catholic Church than they are to the Greek Orthodox.

This is really no place to go deep into the theology of either group, but here are few points:

Lutherans believe in justification by faith alone. Orthodox believe in justification by faith + works.

Lutherans believe that justification is a legal aquittal of the guilt of sin. Orthodox believe that justification is the gradual process of improving moral behavior.

Lutherans believe that Jesus died to take our penalty on the cross. Orthodox believe that Jesus died so that he could raise from the dead, and so that we could participate in his resurrection through the sacraments and thereby overcome the inclination to sin.

Lutherans believe that the human race sinned through Adam. Orthodox believe that mortality is inheritted from Adam, but not the guilt of his sin.

Lutherans believe that human nature became sinful when Adam sinned. Orthodox believe that the nature of man was not tarnished in the fall.

Lutherans believe that man lost the image of God when Adam sinned. Orthodox believe that image of God was preserved in man after the fall.

Lutherans (I think) adhere to a Presbyterian form of Church government, while Orthodox adhere to an Episcopal form of Church government.

Lutherans do not agree with all of the Orthodox ideas about the virgin Mary. Orthodox believe that Mary was free from comitted sin (although still mortal and in need of redemption), and Orthodox believe that Mary was assumed bodily into heaven after her death. As far as I know, the Lutherans do not believe in those two doctrines, but they still afford a high veneration of the Virgin. They may object to the Orthodox use of the phrase "Mother of God" or "Theotokos."

Otherwise, there are a number of similarities. Both believe in amellenialism, and reject the idea of the "rapture" or a literal 1000 year reign of Christ on earth following the second coming. Both believe in similar forms of the Eucharist, except that the Orthodox view is actually closer to that espoused by Zwingli. Both are indeed big on liturgy and tradition, and both allow the use of iconography (although Lutherans, to my knowledge, do not venerate icons).

As for the girl above me, the word "conservative" means "traditional." People confuse political conservatism (which fundamentalists observe) with religious conservatism (which fundamentalists reject). You can't get more conservative than the Orthodox Church. They make the Roman Catholics look like Al Gore.

As for Joe Cool, I think he might be mistaken about absolutism. While the Orthodox Church does adhere to traditional doctrines, there is quite a bit of freedom in the hands of the laity. Congregations, for example, can remove bishops if they so desire. Each Orthodox bishop is actually independent of the others - there is no hierarchy, so to speak. Only convocations of bishops can exert authority over individual bishops.

Answer 2

If you are a conservative Christian I think you are the one that would be most surprised at the other two. There are different branches of Lutherans and some might be more fitting to your way of thinking and other would be too liberal. The Orthodoxy church does not just look to the bible, as you have said, Holy Tradition is also important to them. Which I understand that conservative Christians put little stock in. There is a difference in theology about some minor or not so minor points, depending on your point of view.

Also if you are not Greek or from that part of the world you might find that you will not fit in as well. I have a friend who joined the Russian Orthodox church and it was very ethnic and while everyone was very kind to him, he was not able to make a lot of friends there because they keep to their own.

Answer 3

You said it yourself, that encounter a decade ago of Cena shaking Undertaker's hand was pretty significant. Though, that can't certainly be the only reason why the match is "destined" to happen. We all consider Cena as the top guy in the company. That is universally accepted and true. I clearly recognize the guy's uniqueness in the company, being able to handle ANY crowd, and always being able to get a reaction. Undertaker has done that as well. Cena has been here young and strong for a decade, and he really still is aside from minor injuries. The guy is controversially at his prime, some may say years ago, some may say years to come. When any superstar is in such a position, you know he's special. Finally, Cena doesn't lose cleanly. Only rarely. Same applies to Undertaker, especially at WrestleMania, of course. Cena's gimmick is plain and simple- never give up. The classic moral we find in nearly every story, never ever give up. Being applied to the wrestling world of course made it seem idealistic and unreal, in the sense that only superheroes can obtain that gimmick and make it work. Nobody else had this gimmick and been able to work it as finely as Cena. Except for Undertaker. Put these two megastars in the main event at Mania, and you're calling for a very unpredictable anything goes match. This is the one match people are completely scared of, and this is why it must happen. The IWC can ***** all they want about Cena potentially ruining the streak, but that's the whole ******* point. These type of matches are best when nobody but the two wrestlers and Vince know the outcome. Bleacher Report will rehash rumor and speculation articles for months, and not a single one of these articles will provide a solid, definite proof that either one will win. Punk vs Taker was very obvious. This match won't be. Considering also how Undertaker and Cena are the best at "sudden kick outs", this is a match where everybody will be on the edge of their seat. I expect great things from this match which I feel very certain to happen. And if this turns into an I quit match, well, I'll let somebody else explain it since that's a whole another level of surprise.

Answer 4

I'm not sure about what would surprise either religion, but I do think that the Greek Orthodox church is more faithful to Biblical teachings and traditions than the Lutheran Church.
Good luck

Answer 5

Lutherans would struggle with the absolutist claims of the Greek Orthodox Patriarch. Greek Orthodox would be disturbed by the freedom granted the members.
There are other differences such as the # of sacraments etc., but those are the knock out punches.

Answer 6

You do realize that Greek Orthodox is pretty much Catholicism without the Pope right? If you are ok with that, then I would definately recommend Greek Orthodox over Lutheranism (and Catholicism over both).

Answer 7

Greek Orthodox. Wrestling was in the first Olympics so they have more experience and tradition.

Answer 8

I am currently at work and will have to come back to this question.