Frequently Used Sires...should there be a limit??????

Question

I have no idea about other breeds, but in mine there is always one or two very popular studs that are used HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of times in their lives. Personally, I don't care how good that dog is, the breed does not need to be inundated with so many dogs from the same couple of sires. I think there should be a limit on the number of times a dog can be used. I am sick of trying to find a stud for a bit ch and seeing the SAME dogs in all the pedigrees!!!!! Thoughts??

I do go out of the area. Like to Canada. It is just sad that because a dog is a big winner, everyone lines up to use it, even if it is not that great. I am sure people saw "Josh" the Newf that won Westminster. That dog was NOT that good. Dumbo/Hound ears do not belong on a Newf!! Some health clearances are missing as well!!! It is sad to see how many dog now carry him in the pedigree....and I would like to avoid it!!

What is SOOO sad is that all the "old time" good judges keep dying!!!! There are still a few that have yet to be swayed by the popular handler and the "flashy" sculpted coat!!! They are hard to find though!!!!!

"It's your fault"...What if EVERY time you had sex, you had another child that you HAD to support?? That would self-limit a LOT of men. THANKFULLY, dogs are NOT people and do not have sex for enjoyment!! It is funny when men think all males of all species are like them!! LOL!!

sgdrkfae...I agree!! The reason many health problems will NEVER be eliminated is due to the usage of dogs that are effected or carriers and others still cannot NOT use them!!! I do not think ANY male...no matter how wonderful he really is, should be used hundreds of times!!

I don't know about other breeds, but in mine, the line between "top producer" and just "popular" is VERY blurred!!! That is now what is making some of these dogs TOP PRODUCERS!!! They become popular enough and EVERYONE is using them and when you produce a couple hundred puppies a year, chances are you'll get that ROM pretty quick!!!!!! I think it was our last years top producer that was CRAP!! More health clearances lacking there too.

Answer 1

oh thank god! a REAL dog person! (i was getting completely overwhelmed by all the ridiculously stupid questions on here).

i think there should be a limit on how many times a dog can be used in a single year, but no in a lifetime. that way the dog can continue to contribute to the genepool throughout it's life instead of just "maxing out" in his first few years.

it is concerning that some sires, who really aren't that spectacular (just popular), are having such a huge influence on some breeds. in labradors or goldens i'm not so worried, but in the rarer breeds it could be disasterous down the road.

i work with bedlington terriers and our main problem is copper toxicosis of the liver. this disease was never a problem until one wildly popular stud was used over and over and over about 20 yrs ago. he passed the recessive trait to all of his offspring, so a few years later dogs were dropping dead left and right from this disease. thankfully, we now have a genetic test to help us manage this disease and we are on the way to eliminating it.

thanks for posting!

Answer 2

I agree. There are 2 males in my breed that had hereditary heart problems, both were used quite a bit, the son of one is still being widely used, the other is in most all pedigrees. It is hard to find a stud without one of these dogs in the background at least once. There are others, I am sure, but the breeders were open and honest about it. I don't understand why someone wouldn't be up front about something like that, surely the breed as a whole is more important than an ROM/ROMX.

I try to do relative outcrosses. I am sure I would get more consistency with tighter breedings, but genetic diversity is more important to me.

People just tend to run out and use the newest big winners, with no thought about where everyone will go if it turns out he passed on some terrible problem.

Not that I breed very often! Whippet pups are SO hard to place! A litter every 2-3 years is enough for me!


Frenchie person - "AKC conformation shows are so only about looks that they will pick a dog that has bad health......The lady is going to breed him because he is finished, even though he is a very sickly dog.

Most of the time, a judge can have no idea of the actual health of the dog nor do they know if it has a crappy pedigree. If it is something they can see, I don't think most judges would put that dog up. It really is up to the breeder to choose what to breed. Sadly, some think just because it is finishable, it should be bred.


Trying to raise the bar around here Torbay???


I show in Canada as well, I love Canada shows!

Every year I hope my breed doesn't win a big televised show like Westminster. I cringe at the thought of a slew of people on here asking where they can find a Whippet. It was bad enough after Vivi the Whippet was lost and the owners said she was worth $10,000. Then we had a slew of people looking to buy "breeding pairs", as if they could sell puppies for big bucks. LMAO!!!



sgdrkfae makes a good point. When a dog is older, still healthy, sired some nice healthy pups, his use could be good for the breed. It would be a shame for a dog like that to be unusable just because of numbers.

Answer 3

The reason those dogs get used so much often has little relation to how good they are. Many times these are big winning dogs with lots of money behind them.

That being said, if the dog is far enough back, it is often of little consequence. And in some cases, though sadly rare, the stud may have done the breed a huge favor and provided the breed a stability it was previously lacking. I prefer to find a lesser known dog that is often times better than the big winning dogs...

As you may know, many of those big winning dogs may be beautiful but they also have a whole lot of charm and flash that often gets them to where they are. BIS dogs are not always BIS quality, they just may have the attitude (and owners who are not as picky but have lots of $$$). As a judge, I can comment that some all-around judges do not take the time to really know each breed they judge. It use to be, and many of the old time judges are this way, that the judges were dog people who really knew dogs and had an "eye for dogs" but that along with the knowledge of professional handlers is changing.

Answer 4

I think that they should limit. The problems is not as bad in French Bulldogs, but it is still there and getting worse. With Frenchies, and I would assume with many other breeds, they have so many possible health problems breeding like that makes it so much worse. Plus, AKC conformation shows are so only about looks that they will pick a dog that has bad health. I know a lady that had a male Doberman puppy that had horrible Demodectic mange (he had the worse case that I had ever seen) and 2 weeks after he was diagnosed he went to a local show and finished with a 5 point major. The lady chalked the hell out of him to cover up his hair loss, but it was still obvious that something was going on, she just told the judge that his was shedding his puppy coat. The sad part was that they judge was a retired veterinarian and should of been able to know that something else was going on. The lady is going to breed him because he is finished, even though he is a very sickly dog (which is a problem with her ethics). It annoys the hell out of me.

Answer 5

This happens in many breeds, the more popular a dog gets, the more likely is to happen. For example, Ch. Bang Away Of Sirrah Crest (Boxer) was so popular in his career that he nearly single-handedly changed the Boxer - looks & personality. He was the first big 'flashy' (lots of white markings) dog, and had a softer, goofier personality. Before him, the Boxer had more of a protective/guard dog 'harder' edge. One dog that EVERYONE wants to breed to makes a huge impact. If you go back far enough, it would be hard to find a Boxer that does not have a tie to him in America. Good, bad, or indifferent, it happens.

More info & evidence of his popularity (he was as big as 'American Idol' in his time!) http://www.dog-tracker.com/BCPI/greatest.html

Answer 6

HI
Try going outside your area for a stud. I don't care for that also. Although there is no limit on how many times a male dog can be breed AKC is making them DNA a male with numerous litters that are registered. I definitely think there needs to be a bigger gene pool the pure breed gene pool pickings is getting thin.
Lammy

Answer 7

I don't breed, but what you're saying sounds like common sense to me. It must be hard to select a sire for your dogs when a good deal of the dogs are already related to your own or to each other. Isn't that how the bad inbreeding happens?

Answer 8

In 1987 GSD "Covy Tucker Hill's Manhattan" wasn't worth a sh!t either.
Jimmy Moses won the Westminster with him. Jimmy was know to leave many show grounds with ribbon in hand in a big hurry with "Hatter" to avoid protests. It was pathetic to see novice people flock to Hatter when he never reproduced. Maybe that was a good thing!

Not all judges are worth their merit either.

Everyone (with a novice eye) wants a star. If only they'd take the blinders off and read the standard... It is that simple.

Answer 9

IF it's a TOP PRODUCER...NO!!!

You know that that's different from just being POPULAR!

In *my* breed,"Ch Royal Rock Don Of Chidley" was used on nearly EVERY ***** there was but I'D *LOVE* to have a straw of his semen TODAY!!

There are "fad-following fools" in dog-people too.
Too bad you can't see what those few popular sires G-grands will be doing in 10-15 years,eh?

Ah well.......it wouldn't be fun if you could crank em w/ a COOKIE CUTTER,would it?

Answer 10

The deeper the gene pool the better. I don't blame you for becoming annoyed