My toilet won't stop running, and it's not the flapper or floater!?

Question

So when I flush my toilet, after the tank fills, it keeps running. First thing i did was check the flapper - that's working fine, it seals up every time. Then I checked the floater (air-filled sphere attached to a rod that, when lifted all the way up, cuts off the water), well, when its lifted all the way up, nothing stops anymore, so I figured that was the problem, and I just started turning the water on and off each time. Well, now we get to the real problem - when i turn the water off at the wall, it doesn't stop running, just slows down a bit, but still runs continuously (so its obviously not the flapper or the floater) - how do I fix that piece if I can't turn the water off?

Thanks for the answers thus far!

car dude - as for the flapper, the water is running, but not going into the bowl. rather, its getting to the top of the tank and going down that pipe in the middle (overflow pipe? not sure what its called), which makes me think the flapper is still fine.

I'm thinking its definitely the shut-off valve (and maybe the fill valve as well). I went to this webpage - http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.do?contentId=19461 - and tried the first step, tightening the packing nut, but that didnt work. its raining right now, so I cant try the others, but will tomorrow.

Thanks!

Answer 1

To start with I'd say something is wrong with the shut off valve leading to the tank. You'll have to turn of the main shutoff outside to fix that. Then replace the valve inside the tank.

Answer 2

Leaky loos are the most common cause of high water bills. People tend to repair drippy faucets because the drips are visible and annoying. Whereas, it's easier to overlook the leaking toilet.

There are a number of signs that a toilet needs some repairs, but many toilets leak without conspicious indications of trouble. Here are some of the more obvious signs of a leaking toilet:

* If you have to jiggle the handle to make a toilet stop running.

* Any sounds coming from a toilet that is not being used are sure signs of leaks.

* If you have to hold the handle down to allow the tank to empty. This can also mean the chain or strap is too long and doesn't lift the flapper or ball high enough to float on its own.

* If you see water running over the top of the overflow, you definitely have a leaking refill valve.

If you are unsure whether or not water is running over the top of the overflow pipe; sprinkle talcum powder on top of the water in the tank, and you can clearly see whether or not it is.

* If water drips out of the refill tube into the overflow pipe.

* If a toilet turns the water on for 15 secords or so without you touching the handle, this is otherwise known as the phantom flusher.

However, even if your toilet doesn't have any of these symptoms, it's still possible that it is leaking. These leaks are known as SILENT LEAKS, because they usually go undetected.

There is an easy test you can do that will positively tell you whether or not your toilet is leaking. And if the test shows that the toilet is leaking, there is a second test that tells you what part inside the tank is responsible and needs fixing.

Remove the cover on the toilet tank and carefully set it aside so it can't be accidently knocked over and cracked. Remove any "in-tank" bowl cleaners that color the water and begin the test with clear water in the tank as well as in the bowl.

You'll need some dye. Some municipal water companies will provide dye capsules or tablets, but food coloring or instant coffee works fine. Another great suggestion from a viewer is to use several tablespoons of a powdered fruit drink mix; grape flavored is perfect. Now put enough dye in the tank water to give the water a deep color. Wait 30 minutes and make sure nobody uses the toilet. In 30 minutes if you find any of the dyed water is now in the toilet bowl -- your toilet is leaking. A properly operating toilet will store water in the tank indefinitely without any water running into the bowl. A student once told me she thought that water was supposed to be running in the toilet bowl to help keep it clean. Another student told me that she thought when you had a leaking toilet there would be water visible on the floor.

Water on the floor around a toilet is certainly a problem. It can be dripping off a sweaty toilet tank during humid weather; it can mean the wax sealing ring under the bowl has disintegrated, or the bowl is cracked; or it can mean the connections under the tank are leaking. (These problems will be covered later.)

So for now, let's say you've done the dye test and found your toilet is leaking, you now have to find out which part is the culprit ... the flush valve or the refill valve. And there's another simple little test that points to the perpetrator of the crime.

Draw a pencil line on the back wall of the tank on the inside of the tank at the waterline. Then turn the water supply off, either under the tank or at the main shutoff ~~ wait 20 to 30 minutes. If the water level remains at the pencil mark ~~ the leak is occuring at the REFILL VALVE, the unit in the left side of the tank. If the water level falls below the pencil mark ~~ the leak is in the FLUSH VALVE, the unit located in the center of the tank.

See an illustration at this website:
http://www.toiletology.com/leaking.shtml

Answer 3

Your main water cutoff is outside the house??? Are you sure? If you live in an area that ever freezes, I don't think so. Look at where the pipe comes into the house, is there a meter or even a valve there?

Even if the main valve is outside, there just might be another valve in the line somewhere. Probably not, but worth a look.

When you shut off the valve under the tank, do you let the pressure off of it before determining it is still flowing? You need to do that. If it really will not shut off, I would replace it or fix it before trying to fix the toilet problem. Otherwise it is too many trips to the main valve.

After that valve is fixed, you can rebuild or replace the inlet valve inside the toilet. Replacing it isn't expensive and isn't too big of a task if you have some plumbing experience and the tools. It is manditory to be able to completely stop the water flow to the toilet, one way or the other.

I understood that even if you manually raise the float, the water will keep running. If I understood that correctly, it definately is in the intake valve. Actually, I have simply taken that valve apart and put it back together and it worked. A chunk of crud (sorry for the technical term) can bet stuck in the valve, causing it to not shut all the way.

I have seen that crud issue several times. Simply turning off the main water and turning it back on can knock enough crud loose inside the pipes to cause a valve to o close properly. You sometimes see it in faucets too. Definately in the strainer inside the faucet.

Some others have suggested that you replace the tank to bowl parts while you are at it. That is a judgement call. Those parts in my father's toilet needed rebuilding after about 30 years of use. Mine is still fine after 60 years. The bolts in his rotted out.

Answer 4

Ok it sounds like your problem is 2 fold. First the original problem is the ball valve was not shutting off the water. This needs to be replaced. I would go to the local hardware store and buy a Fluidmaster toilet fill valve. It is a new style of fill valve and is easy to install. About $10. You will either need to replace the shut off valve or just put a new washer in it. That depends on how experienced you are at plumbing. I say easy but if you are not familiar it is not. To replace the washer turn the main water off to the house (should be in the basement) Remove the packing nut unscrew the handle and pull it out. Change the washer then reinstall. You should be good to go

Answer 5

You have two probs.

1. the supply valve - at the supply line, to the tank. You need to change the washer on this one.

2. the float valve.

#1 above is not so serious. You can afford to live with it.
#2 above should be replaced pronto.

Buy a pressure activated stop valve available in Homedepot or Loews. There are no floaters, no nothing. This one takes very little room inside the tank and it is effective. It costs about $20. Takes about 5 minutes to install. No tools needed. Everything hand tight only. This is your best bet.

Remove all your float, the ball and the whole works and discard.

A cheap but effective solution. Save on your water bills and do this right away. I did this to all the toilet tanks in my house 5 years ago. Still works without giving any problems.

Answer 6

It appears both the tank-fill assembly (entire rod-like thing) and the supply valve must be replaced.

As they noted on the website you referenced, supply valves generally get limited use -- in their idle state, minerals can build up and the gaskets can lose their pliability.
Many are there for years without movement.

Once moved, especially as you did --essentially as an on and off valve -- their weaknesses are magnified.

Your actions alone did not cause the problem, just contributed to it. Age, corrosion mineral content in water, and pliability of washer are also contributing factors.
I've replace a few of these for the same reason.

You usually can pick up the supply valve for around $10.00 (Lowe's/Home Depot), and the fill kit (for inside tank) for around $20.00

You will need to:
1) Make sure you will have the tools necessary for the job.
2) Purchase the supply valve, and the tank fill kit
3) Turn off Main shut-off valve ( s/b just outside the house)
4) Remove/replace shut-off valve at toilet
5) Make sure it is in off position.
6) Turn On Main shut-off valve (this will resupply water to the house)
7) Time to change out the tank-fill kit

You will have to drain the water from the tank -- Flush, then with sponge or rag, start removing remaining water -- then remove tank fill valve.

Replace, connect, . . .

Note: You don't want to turn the Main supply on/off often either or you might land up with the same result there also.

Good Luck !

Answer 7

sounds like the washers are gone in both! first the fill valve in the toilet needs to be replaced. if you are going to go through all of that and it's as old as it is, do the stand pipe while you have it apart. it's cheap enough, and buy the new tank mounting bolts, too, cause they old gaskets won't be any good anyways. you want to do this only once, right? so for about $40-50.00 you will have rebuilt the whole thing to like new. the flapper might look good to you but the water running tells me it doesn't seat completely. look at what water did to the rock at niagra falls, you think the plastic the flapper sits on won't wear? next the wall valve is gone too. you'll need to shut the water off where it comes into your house to replace it.

Answer 8

ok here is your solution. look at the overflow tube. that is the tall tube in the middle that has the hose connected to it. is thewater overflowing from the tank into it. if it is adjust the float. if no then look at the supply hose. if the supply hose is pushed down below the level of the water in the tank you are getting siponage. get the supply line to be above the water and this will stop your leaking. if neither of these items are your problem get some food coloring or blueing. put it in the tank. if there is water going into the bowl and turning the bowl blue your flapper is bad. if you already changed the flapper, maybe you got the wrong one, or maybe there is debris on where it closes. make sure the housing has no bumps on it. uses some sandcloth to clean where the flapper closes.

Answer 9

Let's discuss the first problem. You stated you were able to pull the float up, and the water would still run. There is debris inside the fill valve. It could be mineral deposits that built up inside your pipes, and dislodged, traveled through the pipes, and lodged inside this valve. Most of the newer plastic models, can be opened, by twisting the top 1/4 turn and lifting up. You need to be able to turn the water off, before attempting this. Your second problem is the same as the first, debris has gotten lodged inside the shut off valve. Debris can enter your house from the main pipes suppling water to your house. When a main ruptures, it usually takes a day or so for the local utility company to locate and repair the break. In the meantime, the water is still flowing, but now dirt, rocks, leaves,etc., can be pulled into the water main, where it travels along, until someone opens a faucet, and water flows into your house, bringing all sorts of wonderful, agravating little particles, to stop up all your plumbing. The best defense for this type of debris, is a whole house filter. It is installed in the main water supply to your house, and located where it is accessible for filter replacement. For your drinking water, a reverse osmosis filter is the best for the money, 2nd only to a distilling unit, which is the best. The cost of an R.O. system is about $150-$200, compared to $1000- $1500 for a distiller, and that doesn't include installation charges. If you have steel, or galvanized pipes, these pipes are very porous, and minerals get trapped in the walls of the pipe, and build up over time. Eventually some of these particles will break off, and float in the pipes, until a fixture is turned on, or calls for water. Faucets have the screens in the aerators, and these clog up over time, and less water can run from the faucet. These can be unscrewed, and cleaned out. Just pay attention as to how many parts there are, and how they come apart, so you can reassemble in the correct order. One rule of thumb. If you have to turn the water main off, just open the tub valve, before you turn the water back on. These faucets don't have aerators, and will flush out most of the debris, as the water re-enters your piping system. I would turn the main vale to the house off, and install a new 1/4 turn shut off valve on the line feeding your toilet. These cost about $5, and are the best type to use. A1/4 turn and it is off, and vice-versa to turn on. Go ahead and replace the supply line while you are there. For $3, it is peace of mind. Now you can tackle the problem of the fill valve in the toilet. Depending on the brand, just twist the top, and lift up. Slowly turn on the shut off valve, only partially, and watch the water rise up, and hopefully dislodge any debris inside. Turn off the water, reconnect the top of the fill valve, and turn the water back on, and check for leaks. Adjust the float, so that the water level is 1inch below the overflow tube. Problem solved! Good luck!

Answer 10

Turn the water off before your toilet? The easiest way would be to shut the water off for your whole house (or apartment). It will only be for a few hours. I'd try replacing the valve that shuts water off for your toilet first.