Puppy from a petstore, please read first...?

Question

My pet store has been very trustworthy so far, and they don't keep puppies in stock, though they have little cages for oops-litter kittens that they adopt out *people bring in the kittens, you get a free cat with a $35 purchase of kitten supplies* Again, they NEVER have any puppies in the store *okay, pple bring theirs in sometimes*

Anyways, as an act of desperation, I asked for a price quote on the breed I"m after *papillon, if you must know* and was told that it would be less than four hundred, which is less than half the price from breeders. I'm told she would be vet checked, micro chiped, vaccinated, and pedigreed. The price is what throws me, because I'm told petsores over charge, and I'm sure that from this place I could get a reffund if something was horribly wrong *like it was the wrong breed, or some genetic disorder was discovered upon her vet visit* I've made no decission yet, but I see no red flags, either.

Tell me what could go wrong here?

I ask because the store doesn't fit the mold at all for the reason you shouldn't buy pups from petstores.

I went looking for breeders first. I found their prices ourtrageous at best. Also, every one of them treated me like a child because I can indeed sound like a 12yo when nervous, an no 12yo has access to the kind of money they were asking.

Shelters were second. In my area, there's no such thing as a small dog in a shelter, nothing smaller than like, pitbull size *i use pit for example because that was all there was. wait, there was one great dane mix...*

Pet stores over charge? I don't understand that comment. Everyone of the breeders was asking at least $1000, and I'd call under $400 a steal. And then there's the micochip. I didn't know they did that at all in this state.

It seems legit. I went to them looking, they didn't pounce or anything. I had to call several times to get the quote, and eventually just went in to see the price. If anything they're reluctant.

No red flags...

yeah.... at what point did I meantion breeding? Can't ask a damned question without being badmouthed by the latest incarnation of gitemgang or anyone of her followers. Some people have no lives, or hearts for that matter. I don't care if you've been doing showdogs for however many years, that doesn't make you god. If it did, that would make me an aethiest.

If a dog's been born, it cannot be unborn. I can see both sides of the supporting puppy mills issue. Rescue a puppy, or let it rot in what is esentially doggy hell. Rescue it and you're supporting the problem, don't and you're letting a puppy die. There's no win here.

Answer 1

Ask what type of health guarantee you get with the puppy. Some serious genetic health issues do not show up in the first vet visit. Sometimes they don't show up for several months!

The price also throws me. I would think that you might be getting exactly your money's worth.

Answer 2

The biggest problem I see is that you could run into some genetic problems, most of which aren't obvious to vets until the dog is about 1 year old OR behavior issues.

Why is this dog in a pet store? Where are the parents? Who bred the dog? Where are the siblings? Can you be sure the parents have been tested for genetic faults?

Breeders (good breeders) breed for personality/temprament, while bad breeders breed for money. Good breeders are attached to their dog, proud of her, so if you and the dog didn't work out, the breeder would take it back. Not so with pet stores, who are out to make a profit.

I know that seems backwards, with the pet store charging less, but remember that the breeder has spent a TON on whelping materials, supplements, expensive food, possibly shipping another show dog from somewhere else to mate and create a great litter, etc. etc.

Breeders are estimated to make just $40 or so on pups.

So .. . if your dog is bred sloppily and just for money, she could be nervous, hard to train, etc. and you're stuck with her for life.

I have found that you really get what you pay for with dogs. I guess my parting advice would be go with your gut, not what other people tell you (or try to sell you).

If your gut says the pet store is shady, what about a papillon rescue?

http://adopt-a-papillon.1-800-save-a-pet.com/

***Just read your snippy added detail, and you mentioned breeding when you asked about a PUPPY. Puppies are the product of breeding. And the downside of buying a puppy mill dog is that you are supporting the scum bags who treat dogs like poo and breed just to make a profit. That's the downside. Just wondering why you asked the question if you obviously already made up your mind.***

Answer 3

You will do what you feel is right to you. In my opinion (we have 4 dogs, only 1 purebred in the bunch), I would truly question HOW ON EARTH you can get a purebred, healthy, vaccinated, microchipped and pedigreed Papillon puppy for less than 1/2 of what the reputable breeders are charging. You don't seriously imagine that they would "sell" to pet stores at a really low price if they are able to command "top dollar" for their pedigreed dogs?
Just think about it - anyone with a quality product to sell is not going to "cheapen" their product. Why then would they even bother to sell from their kennels direct to consumers?
Even if the puppy is pedigreed (some pet stores have been known to sell you a puppy with "papers" and all the paper says is that is it "such and such" a breed...not an AKC registration at all!), then you would have to wonder whether it is healthy.
Tread lightly, my friend....you could be the lucky one to get a healthy, happy, well-adjusted, papered Papillon BUT the chances are slim.
As I have stated, I have 4 dogs - 3 are "rescues" and 1 is a purebred. The only reason for the 1 purebred is because I fell in love with her and I wanted that specific breed. I am not a "snob" but I would NEVER have considered a pet store.
I was lucky and got my purebred Border Collie for a very reasonable price. However, before I even put down a deposit, I met the mother dog and saw her in action with the puppies in her home. Once I saw that, I gave them a deposit with the understanding that I was to meet the stud dog before I committed to the purchase. As it turned out, the stud dog (dad) was an even nicer dog than the mother. Having met both parents and seen them in action and interaction with the puppies and the owners, I was satisfied that they had been well cared for and the bloodline appeared to be healthy. That made all the difference in the world!

Answer 4

DO NOT EVER BUY PUPPIES FORM PET STORES!!! Most pet stores get their puppies from puppy mills. These puppy mills have hundreds of dogs that are kept in cages their entire life and bred over and over and over (a not should NEVER be bred each and every heat). Many of the breeding dogs go "cage crazy" and demonstrate symptoms like circling and biting themsleves. The puppies you are not good quality. That is why breeders charge so much, you are guarenteed a good puppy. You can trace it's lineage.
If breeder prices are too high, try checking into a Papillon rescue. Normally if you have to pay for the dog, it costs far less than a puppy from a breeder. The other benefit is that you KNOW that you are getting aq dog that needs you.

Answer 5

I smell a rat, only because our local pet store occasionally sells puppies that I THOUGHT were from local breeders, and she always let everyone think that... well, one day I went in there and she was complaining that her "shipment" was lost at JFK and "those puppies better look good when they get here to Albany!" JFK is about 5 hours from where this store is located. Guess what breed???? Papillon. She sold them for $600 each.

So somewhere somehow a puppy mill is marketing to the little local pet stores and air freighting the puppies into the closest airport for them to pick up. I'm guessing the profit margin is about $100-200 instead of the mall pet store markups. Still looks like a lot of money to small business, I'm sure.

Answer 6

I have two puppies that I have rescued from shelters. I've never been big into the whole pedigree scenario. So I can't give you details on that. But I can say that in my opinion, you shouldn't do this. I'm sure the pet store people would say otherwise, but it sounds like a raw deal to me. I'd go with a reputable breeder or go to the humane society. There are pleanty of dogs out there who don't have a home who need someone. I think it you look hard enough, you will find who you are looking for.

Trilli

Answer 7

If you are looking for a papillon, then your best source for getting a good quality one is to attend a dog show, and talk to people there. (Not before they show, as they are busy with preparations, but hang out, and you'll find someone to talk to.) Another excellent source for finding a good (read: reputable) breeder is to look for papillon rescues, either locally, or on the web. The reason for this is because a reputable breeder will generally be involved in rescue as well.

I agree with the above that a pedigree means nothing. I have a rescue bichon from an "overpopulated breeder" that comes with a pedigree, micro-chipping, and AKC registration, as well as allergies, bad teeth, and a trunkload of emotional baggage. A responsible breeder will require to know where their dogs are placed, and require you to return the dog to them if you cannot keep it for any reason. I know it seems like a good idea to "rescue" dogs in situations like this one, but what you are ultimately doing is enabling the breeder to continue with what they are doing, which is breeding dogs for the sole purpose of making money. As long as this pet store allows people to drop off pets for the store to make money on, they are still part of the problem. Responsible breeding only happens when the breeder is responsible for what they are producing. As long as they are making money off breeding dogs, they will not change their behavior. There is a saying in the dog community, it is "spend your money on a well-bred dog, or spend it on keeping a badly-bred dog healthy." The longer I am involved with rescue work, and the more I see of puppy mill and backyard breeding results, the more I am convinced of this.

Wait, save your money, and get an excellent quality dog from the beginning. It will do the dog world, and your heart, more good than you know.

Answer 8

I have bred dogs and belong to a rescue organization. Please, don't buy from a pet store! Any pet purchase from a pet store is supporting a puppy mill. Reputable breeders insist on meeting the prospective owners before selling their puppies. Why? Because it is not that profitable to breed dogs if done right. Between vet bills and general care, typically the breeder breaks even. If you were to buy this puppy for $400. I guarantee you will have heartbreak from health problems later on. Please re-consider the shelter, a rescue organization, or save your money to buy a puppy from a reputable breeder. It wouldn't hurt for you to check out the breeder in person either, since I've known breeders who are "picky" except for themselves! You want a dog that comes from a loving home, not a "kennel."

Good luck in your decision!

Answer 9

Last month I went to a pet store to "look" at a dog that i was wanting to adopt and instead ended up adopting another dog from another area humane society. He's not "papered" but you can clearly tell that he is all poodle. Plus with humane societies you can first if you want do Foster to Adopt, that is what they did with me and two days or I should say three days later I knew that I had to keep him. But if you do do FTA (foster to adopt) you will have a two week period of time to make sure that he is in the health that they have said or if you think that care is going to be too expensive you can return the pet. I paid $175 adopt fee plus $5 for a donation because they operate strictly on donations. Most humane societies go to local pet stores such as PetSmart and a portion of the money that the store raises goes toward helping homeless animals.

Answer 10

Although it seems like a safe bet, and it is good that you are hesitant, a good rule to go by is to just steer away from buying anything from a pet store that sells dogs and/or cats.
You just do not want to contribute to their causes which can involve supporting puppy mills and/or backyard breeders.
There are many high-quality Papillon breeders out there as well as on www.petfinder.com
You just do not know where this pup is coming from, no matter what they tell you.

I am not going to be rude to you because you are taking a great approach to this.

Answer 11

Here's the problem, there is no way to know where they are getting this dog from. Pedigree means nothing. I've seen horribly sick 'papered' puppies. I've heard of 'papered' puppies, with quasi health guarantees, die of Parvo a week after purchase. I've heard of 'papered' puppies who have such major genetic problems that they had to be put down by 6 months old (brittle bone disease, hip dysplasia, eye problems, etc.) Papers are no guarantee of health.

The other problem is that the Papillion Club of America clearly states that no member of their club will sell to a pet shop. Here's the actual quote: "SALES: No member of the Papillon Club of America will sell at wholesale or to retail outlets, brokers, pet shops, mail order houses, or businesses of similar commercial enterprise, or donate a dog to be offered as a prize."

http://www.papillonclub.org/pcamemberguides.html

So, if they are violating that rule, what other ones are they violating?

The PCA also says that all buyers and breeders must have a contract. You won't have such a contract because you are buying from a middle man. The breeder has not screened you, probably has no spay/neuter contract, and you know nothing about the breeder. One should NEVER buy a dog without meeting and questioning the breeder.

I 100% disagree with what Ben has told you. This dog may not be a good deal. Poorly bred dogs from disreputable breeders often end up costing more money int he long run due to faulty breeding. These types of breeders often skip genetic testing of the parents, they often forego CERF and OFA testing, and they have been known to forge vet certificates. Why risk it?

Remember, you get what you pay for. There's a reason why this pup is so cheap, and that reason is probably because it's not from a responsible breeder. The only way I would even consider this dog is if it was a rescue animal from a reputable rescue group.

Here's the PCA's list on how to look for a puppy: http://www.papillonclub.org/Findingabreeder.html It's actually a pretty good list, I'm impressed.

The PCA site lists probably a hundred different breeders around the country: http://www.papillonclub.org/pcabreederslist.htm Have you been lookng at good breeders or BYBs? BYBs tend to overcharge as well, but good breeders will often have pet quality pups available at much cheaper prices.

In short, I'd urge you not to get this pup. While it may be fine healthwise, it is still supporting a shady breeder who is violating all kinds of ethics codes. Keep looking for a good breeder, and don't forget rescue. There are close to 20 dogs listed currently in PCA rescue, and usually local rescue groups have more that aren't up on the site. http://www.papillonclub.org/rescue/

Either way, good luck to you in your search. : )


Edit to add (sorry for the length, but I want to make sure that you understand):

"I went looking for breeders first..." If you didn't like the breeders you found, then find other breeders or don't get this breed. Getting a puppy mill dog is not the answer. If you found their prices outrageous, then you can't afford the dog. Look for a different breed instead.

"Shelters were second. In my area. . ." I linked directly to papillion rescue. Start there and is there are other breeds you are interested in, try the AKC rescue page and http://www.petfinder.com. Many small breed rescues never go to shelters because of private groups.

"Pet stores over charge? I don't understand that . . ." If you get a $400 dog, but it has $1000 worth of medical bills that a well bred $1000 dog wouldn't have, you are in the hole. This pet store seems to be an exception to the upfront overcharging, but that doesn't make it a steal.

"It seems legit. I went to them looking..." See, to me and many of the other answerers who have experience with dogs, it doesn't seem legit. It seems like a puppy mill deal.

"No red flags..." I see lots of them, waving rather strongly. Again, it's too good to be true and it's supporting something that shouldn't be supported. http://www.stoppuppymills.com

But, it's not my call. I've listed the code of ethics. I've explained why poorly bred dogs are bad. I've told you why it's not "a steal". I've listed red flag after red flag. My conscience would not allow me to make this deal. But, that's me. If your mind is made up, then unfortunately none of my links, quotes, anecdotes, or facts will change your mind.

Again, good luck to you. I wish you nothing but the best. : )


Edit: "If a dog's been born, it cannot be unborn. I can see both sides of the supporting puppy mills issue. Rescue a puppy, or let it rot in what is esentially doggy hell. Rescue it and you're supporting the problem, don't and you're letting a puppy die. There's no win here." This is ridiculous logic. Nothing is forcing you to buy this pup. By buying it, you give your money to this person to create MORE poor quality puppies. If no one bought, they wouldn't produce dogs. You AREN'T rescuing it. If you want to rescue, go to a rescue group. You are buying a puppy mill puppy and contributing to their ongoing production. I just don't get what's not clear. But, some people can't walk away from 'a deal', no matter how much blood money it involves. Be moral and have a conscience and walk away. You've been told over and over why this is a bad idea. But I guess that we, and all our links, including to the PCA, just are worthless.