Is this a valid argument???

Question

The mother is worried about offending her mother, so she denies her daughter a true Christmas dinner and opts for the gigantic family potluck at the grandmother's house, where the daughter feels incredibly uncomfortable. *the daughter is related to these people, but by no means are they family*

The mother than goes on to explain that her mother *the grandmother* is 70 and may not have that many years left.

Now the daughter points out the fact that she has "survived" two suicide attempts, and even though she's only 17 every year could be her last.

Who has a better argument on the issue? The mother worried about the grandmother's feelings, or the daughter worried more about how the mother will feel when she finds the suicide note because this was just another piece of what's pushing her that way?

My first attempt was at 15 following several things that just sucked coming one right after another. The second I was 16, following being expelled. Neither one was planned, neither one was threatened, but after seeing how it affected people, I feel they deserve fair warning.

Those of you saying I'm a spoiled brat, go fuckyourselfuptheass you have no clue what is wrong. Those of you saying I'm self centered, I wasn't raised with this family, I don't know them at all and the holidays is not the time to make new family, serious, every family function I meet someone new.

It's fine that my mother wants to be with hers, just not on the days she should be more responsible for the family she chose to have. None of her kids were accidents, vs. all of her mother's.

It's not a threat when I say I want to die. It's a warning that I don't trust myself not to do it.

Answer 1

Sweet heart.................you have a ****** up family. DO NOT allow them to take away your life.
When a woman becomes a mother, her devotion should be for the welfare of those lives that she brought forth. I assume that you are the 17 year old daughter who is the victim of a mother whose priorities are out of whack.

If you are only 17, you have many years to go and a life could be in your future that is far more wonderful than you can imagine right now.
I always say, living well is the best revenge.
Plan your get away. You can start college in a year or two. Get college loans if you must must but do it.
Get therapy. That can help you hold on till you are on your own.

You can get great satisfaction in staying with the living, marrying and raising your children the way YOU should have been raised.
I gather that this dinner fiasco is only the tip of the iceberg in a long term problematic family relationship.

Plan your getaway into the wonderful world that you can create for yourself.
Death is never the answer.

I too grew up in a hellish life with abuse that you cannot imagine. I pondered suicide myself but hung on and my life is far better than I ever imagined.

Put your faith in GOD. Seek therapy and HANG IN THERE, PLEASE. I care.


RESPONSE TO ADDITIONAL COMMENTS:
Please seek help...........when you get the urge, go to an emergency room or call 911. Please live. Any bad reaction you can anticpate from your family for calling 911 or spending time in a hospital is no where near as bad as your life being extinguished forever.
Nothing and no one else matters more than keeping you alive.
You seem to have a problem dealing with disappoinments and unpleasant situations. Medications and therapy can help. Maturity helps too but you have to hang on till you get there and can then have a broader perspective.

Trust me. I have been there.

Answer 2

If the grandmother dies of old age, then that's natural causes. The daughter committing suicide isn't, it's something she brings about of her own volition. The grandmother's death can't be helped, the daughters death can.

If the daughter kills herself, then that is a choice she has made. Trying to make someone feel guilty about a choice you willingly make is pretty pathetic. Committing suicide because you don't get your way is even more pathetic. If the daughter is such a selfish, pathetic person then I wouldn't want her around somewhere she doesn't want to be just so that she can make other people miserable, even if she might regret it later. I'd go without the daughter.

Edit: Everyone has problems, some worse than others, some feel worse than others. That's the way life is. Each person can only control what they can of their own life. But what you can control of it is what you are responsible for.

Don't lie and say the suicide attempts weren't planned. They didn't just happen, as if they were some accident. You had to purposefully intend to do the actions, even if it was just prior to making the attempt. By "warning" people, you are planning the possibility of an attempt, and making a threat that it might occur if certain circumstances happen which you don't like. You can try to pretty it up any way you want to in order to make yourself feel better about it, or to distance yourself from the reality of it, but that is what it comes down to.

You are being selfish about this matter, because your concern is all about you and how you are affected by events. Other people aren't a factor in your concern. This is the very definition of selfish.

I really don't care if you like being told this or not, just because you don't want to own up to it. If you don't want truthful answers, then be careful of the questions you ask.

Answer 3

First of all, you're obviously the daughter.

The 'daughter' is being a bit dramatic, like a typical teenager, and should realize that her grandmother is equally as important to her mother as she is. The daughter should not be so hard on the mother. She should deal with the fact that she's not viewed as an adult by her family, and that by virtue of her age alone, she is not entitled to make family decisions. I believe she should have a say, but to threaten the mother with suicide and try to guilt her about it is by no means going to help. The daughter needs psychiatric help, and the mother should be told so. It should not even be an 'argument', valid or not. There needs to be communication. Why doesn't the daughter feel comfortable at the grandmother's house? That's the real issue. What did these people do?

Suicide is not going to solve anybody's problem, and trying to use one's own life as a bargaining tool only hurts the daughter and everyone in her life.

Answer 4

Why is the daughter suicidal? I hope it is not because a lack of attention from her mother. Is it because the daughter wants to isolate herself and the mother wants her to spend time with extended family rather than with each other. Both arguments are selfish and counseling should get to the underlying problem because to me there is something deep rooted here that should not be displayed on this web page. There are issues here that other people are not qualified to answer or give a great answer. Go get help before it is too late. Good luck sweetie and know that even though God gave you free will, he also put you on this earth not for you to kill yourself but for you to make a difference and to leave a legacy and make an impact in your life as well as the lives of others. Flourish and grow into something beautiful do not diminish and dwendle into nothingness. Good luck sweetie and take it one step and one day at a time.

Answer 5

Let's look at the issues separately. The mother is correct to exercise her duty as a daughter and she is also correct to say that her mother is getting on in years and there is no saying how long more will she be around. This is valid! As for your friend, she needs to be a little more tolerant, patient and understanding and try and see things in her mother's perspective. To think of suicidal at age 17 just to spike her mother is childplay. She needs to understand that she too has a duty as a grandchild (be it part of the family or not). On the other hand, your friend's mother should have explained to your friend and most probably give reason/s why she did what she did. Your friend's mother should also be more concern of your friend's feelings. Perhaps both mother and daughter needs a good one-on-one chat so that they both would understand each other more and derive at a win-win!

Answer 6

If you are the daughter in this scenario. Remember this suicide is a permanent solution to a very temporary problem. Many teens feel powerless and depressed and think that suicide will "show them". All it does is kill you, that is forever my dear! You won't be there to see the hurt and pain on your mother's face. Suicide doesn't end the pain, it transfers it and multiplies it by how many people love you. Please don't consider this as an option. Sometimes parents are clueless as to how best to handle their children. Your mother is kinda stuck trying to be a good daughter and a good mother at the same time - you are asking her to choose between the woman who gave her life and the child she gave life to. It's a hard choice. Perhaps she didn't make the right choice this time in your opinion but just know that she loves you very much and would be absoulutely devastated if you hurt yourself.

Good luck.

Answer 7

How is goign to Grandma's not a true Christmas Dinner?

Did she just want to have a small dinner at home?

You are leaving out some details here.

also at 17, what is worth suicide. What is going on in her life.

Instead of bitching about who has the better argument or which selfish person gets their way this year, your friend should be seeking professional help. Who kills themselves because Christmas Dinner wasn't where they wanted it to be.

BY the way, "I might be dead next year" is not a valid argument for anything. I can Die sitting right here typing, and no one saw it comming. Death is something that Can't be predicted. so don't use it as a fact in an argument.

Answer 8

The grandmother is old, doesn't have many years left and should be respected and they should want to spend time with her.

The mother is right by making the daughter spend time with her family. Whether they like them or not they are family and family sticks together.

The daughter is a spoiled brat who needs her butt spanked until it sinks in that her suicide attempts are not a good way to get all the attention on herself. Or she should just get it over with and quit trying to manipulate people.

Also, the mother in no way denied the daughter a "true" christmas dinner. They had the "True" Christmas dinner with the entire family. Because being with the entire family and giving and receiving love with others is what it is about.

Answer 9

Wait wait wait wait wait.

Wait.

If you really want to surrender your breathing privileges, get thee to an emergency room and tell them.

If you just want people to feel sorry for you, "surviving" two suicide attempts and using it as emotional blackmail to get others to do your bidding sounds semi doable.

You want to live. Exhibit A: You're on here pitching your fit about something minor. Exhibit B: You survived two attempts. You strike me as a fairly bright 17-year-old. I'm sure if you were determined, you could check out.

Tell you what: You back off on the "this could be my last year" threats and go ask your mom for family counseling, and I won't be so mean to a total stranger.

If your counseling takes place in a hospital, swing down by the emergency room. You'll see people desperately clinging to what you are airily threatening to throw away. You'll see people who risked ending their lives to lengthen those of strangers.

Who has the better argument on the issue? ME.

Get over yourself, and do it under medical supervision.

Um, I hope there was good food at the potluck. I like potlucks.

Bill

Answer 10

The mother is right. The seventeen year old sounds like a spoiled brat who wants her way and craves attention at the cost of everyone else. The suicide threats each time she does not get her way only drives her family further away. Committing suicide because she did not get the type of dinner she wanted is a sign of a seriously spoiled and mentally disturbed child. If I were her mother I would have her institutionalized.

Answer 11

Arguing is wrong in general. It's not about who has the better stance in the argument. Each person is going to feel strongly about their place. This argument is beyond who's right and pointing the finger at who's wrong. You are both right, and you are both wrong, isn't it obvious? Now you're on here trying to justify your position because someone will answer your question in your favor, it's ridiculous.
There are obviously bigger issues going on here than who's right about hurting your grandmother's feelings vs. the mom's feelings vs. the daughter's feelings.
If your grandmother was that concerned you guys could have two "dinners" and just deal with it. Whoever is writing this question needs to stop trying to point the finger at the other person, and compromise. It's the only way to make a relationship that is going to grow into something better.

-also i agree that family counseling is in order.