Prayer related question?

Question

Why do Christians believe that an omniscient, perfect, all-knowing, god, has predetermined EVERYTHING, and yet his mind can be changed through prayer? I mean, that would be kind of impossible to change a predetermined reality wouldn't it?

And don't say, I know prayer works because it's worked for me in the past, because that's already been disproven http://youtube.com/watch?v=BH0rFZIqo8A

I'm looking for your logical thought behind this.

Predestination is part of Christian theology, it's amazing how many Christians don't know that...

Answer 1

There is no logical thought behind it.
A lot of people who "pray" are merely asking for what they want anyway, not praying to praise or thank God. x

Answer 2

Yes, predestination is a part of Christianity, but not the double predestination that you are implying. But it may help to look at things from a slightly different angle, i.e. man's complete inability to look to God for salvation, which would by definition make all men condemned before the Lord. If this is true, then free will is most definitely ours to destroy ourselves in whatever way we wish, and the foreknowledge doesn't matter at all -- everybody guilty, everybody destined for hell.

However, God can choose whoever He wants to have a relationship with him, and this is where predestination comes into play. This isn't a controlling predetermination of every move we make, but rather a rescue of sorts that opens our eyes and has us thanking God for what he has given us.

I noticed in the videos that the narrator covered only laws of statistics and physics. Not covered are other aspects of prayer such as adoration and praise; confession of sins and asking for forgiveness; and giving thanks for God's goodness. Can it be proven that God listens to those prayers? Well, this would have to be a matter of faith, which our narrator does not have.

The narrator did have a point, I think mountains would be repositioned all over the globe by now if Jesus' comments could have been taken at face value. Every one of us would be wealthy beyond our wildest dreams, no sickness and diseases, etc. etc.

However, you must keep in mind that the implication that there is no God can be refuted philosophically and logically, so the narrator does not necessarily have a hold on the truth at this point. What we are left with is a universe full of natural processes that we cannot explain, and a Bible that gives us answers to basic life questions. If the video has proven that mathematics and statistics and physics work, and that asking God to change those laws works about as well as moving mountains, I can't disagree. But I'll continue to petition the Lord with my prayers, and let the atheists point their fingers and laugh if they like. I have hope. Atheists and our narrator have none.

Answer 3

There is no predetermination in most religions that I have heard of, perhaps you would like to note the page and chapter where it says prayers do not matter while you are looking for this.

I was raised roman catholic and follow the Methodist ways now, but I dont ever remember anything about predetermination. And there is more than prayer to affect the future. I should know, too many things can not be explained

Answer 4

I am a Christian and I do not believe that God has predetermined everything. It would be ridiculous for God to give us the privilege of prayer but then be unwilling to be reasoned with. The Bible actually says in Isaiah 1:18, "Come let us reason together." The Bible contains many examples of God hearing and answering prayer.

Answer 5

I realized some thirty years ago when faced with a paradox that the "Truth lies between."

Prayer & meditation work because these focus your will (aka God's will, we are each and everyone of us God) on a single goal. The more focused the will, the more likely the desired outcome will manifest.

Life in the physical world is really a solidified dream world. In a dream things change immediately as the will & desire direct. In this world, the change happens by the same process but much more slowly.

We have free will.
"Either" / "or" are the only demons.
"And" / "both" are the only angels.

Answer 6

The fact in itself that God has predetermined your life is contradictory and I'll give you an example to prove my point...

Now I know how 99% of Christians are against abortion. If God has ALREADY predetermined when we will begin life and when it will end, does that mean that a woman who has an abortion and the doctor that preforms it, are just tools in God's plan?

How about the person who shot and killed someone... was he just part of God's plan because the person he killed was already going to die that day at that time anyway? Does that mean that he shouldn't go to jail?

The whole idea that our lives are predetermined is a horrible thought... I would rather KNOW that I can live my life the way I want to and that everything isn't already decided for me. If my life was predetermined then why do I have FREE WILL?

~~M: no one is judging YOU in particular, calm down. You are saying that people claiming to be Christian are giving us false ideas about the real Christians. Since you believe you are a real Christian I'm sure God wants you to overreact, rant and rave, and call other followers of Jesus "mindless drone-*** fools". Is that what makes you a real Christian? I always thought there was the whole "love thy neighbor" and "only God will judge" thing.~~

Answer 7

Predestination is true to the extent that God predestined the way men would be saved and He predestined that those who followed that plan would be saved.

It is God's desire that no one would be lost. Notice what 2 Peter 3:9 says, "The Lord is... not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

It is God's desire all would have the repentance that leads to salvation, but the choice to do so is ours.

Joshua 24:15 says, "…choose you this day whom ye will serve…”

God calls us through His word. Some will accept it and some will reject it.

“…Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations… when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.” (Isaiah 66:3-4)

Notice in this setting, the Lord called, but his call went unanswered. These prople "have chosen their own way."

The doctrine of predestination is false. Yes, God is all-knowing, but there is a difference between knowing something and orchestrating it! God does not choose everything. He allows us to make some choices for ourselves. He gave us the free will to follow him or to reject him.

I know this answer does not agree with your position (and there is little chance you will choose my answer as best), but I hope your mind is open enough to investigate the scriptures I have offered.

Answer 8

I think your question revolves around the theory of predestination.

If prayer changes a Divine predestination(and I believe it can), could that change of predestiny not be a part of the pre-determined path as well? (think deeper but not as hard)

Has anyone ever prayed for a dime for the laundry dryer and had one appear in their left hand? I did!! just one of many,many answered prayers. Prayer does work.

Answer 9

When you think about it, it isn't all that complicated. If you see a child fall off the dock into the lake, you don't stand around and say: "Let's see if God has pre-determined that he will live". You jump into the lake, and pull him out. Then, after that, you can say "God willed that he live". He used you for that. In the same way, God has decided to do certain things in answer to our prayers, so that we would be able to see His hand at work. So his action then depends on our prayers. He uses our prayers, in a sense, to accomplish His purposes.
EDIT:
However, my belief is not in prayer, itis in God. He hasn't promised to answer all my prayers positively, but He does want me to have an ongoing conversatin with Him. And during my 40 years of relationship with Him, I have felt confirmed in my conviction that He does act in answer to prayer.
I do agree that many trreat prayer as a superstition. But it was not meant to be that way.
We must not confuse the fatalism of Islam with the Sovereignty of God taught in Calvinistic Christianity.

Answer 10

I do not believe that God has predestined everything. That would not show love, and if people really believed that garbage, that everything is fate, they wouldn't buckle their seatbelt. There is no logic in the belief that God predestined everything. Have fun reading the answers of people who will insist God is a mystery. How sad that they don't study his book to find out who He is.

Answer 11

First, I can't believe people have so much time on their hands to set out on a crusade against prayer and actually make a film about it. Wow! The lengths at which atheists and humanists will go to to make themselves look more foolish each time totally astounds me! It's quite entertaining.

Secondly, as a Calvinist I do believe everything is predestined and that God is in total control of every aspect of human life including the election by God into the faith. But, you must understand that prayer is more about changing circumstances in a person or person's life, it's about being in communion with God. Prayer is a means to communicate with our Father. Jesus prayed to His father in the Garden of Gethsemane just prior to his arrest and utimately His crucifixion on the cross. But Jesus didn't pray to change things. Jesus simply asked for His father's comfort at a time He was most troubled... and that is what prayer is all about.

When I pray, I don't ask God to change things, I pray that He changes ME in order to see why.