Why do atheists try to disprove religion instead of freewill?

Question

Freewill is the foundation of religion and much easier to disprove. Once you realize freewill is an illusion, your vision of Hell and judgment falls apart. And I don't mean freewill as the ability to choose but instead the accountability of your choices. You see a man cannot choose what he learns because he does not choose his environment. A man cannot will himself to want. He cannot choose what he desires. There are so many extenuating circumstance of which we have no control over that decide our personalities.

I can only learn from what is available to me and I cannot choose what is available to me.

But if you disprove freewill, if you show people they are at the whim of the world then their belief structure will shatter.

Wow. You completely glossed over what I said. I didn't mean freewill as the ability to choose but accountability of your choices.

Predetermination has NO connection with the supernatural. If I drop a ball, it will fall.

Predetermination has NO connection with the supernatural. If I drop a ball, it will fall.

don s, you did not even read anything I just said.

Do humans choose to be sympathetic when it is ingrained in the genes? We have laws because humans are social creatures who want to everyone to be happy. Genes and natural selection is the answer to your question. What you're saying is like why do birds fly if they have freewill? The fly because it survives natural selection just like human compassion.

**if they don't have freewill**

Yeah, I'm not even trying to disprove religion because if you disprove freewill then you have people separating men into good and evil. There's less hostility once you realize man is the same.

**then you don't have**

Answer 1

You are absolutely right, man can't do this.You, as a matter of fact have proved the word of God true and I give you a thumbs up for that." No man can come to me; except the Father which hath sent me draw him;and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44 Thank you Jesus ! It is not possible for the will of man to be subject to God nor will it ever be.The Holy Ghost sent from God calls us into the will of God.Then we choose to accept that or not.We are told to seek the Lord while He can be found.If He calls you that is the time to make the right choice lest you be found living in an illusion.
No my dear delusional Friend I read everything you said.It's like the old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink." We so often are much like the horse that is lead to water, we don't want a drink. The thing is, if you lead a horse to water and he is thirsty, he will drink. He has a choice, he can choose not to drink and go thirsty, or he can drink and be filled. God has the ability to make us thirsty for Him and His Word. This providing us with a choice of freewill. "For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted." Heb. 2:18 Everything you say is true according to mans ability, but with God all things are possible.

Answer 2

You do have a good point... so long as you are saying that Freewill isn't just about making a choice between something good and bad (which is basically the Religious definition for Freewill). But I don't see that it disproves Religion completely. Paganism doesn't have a doctrine of Freewill. Only Mainstream religions rely on this. But, Not all of their denoms/sects rely on it. Calvinism denies Freewill all together. So I don't see that it debunking Freewill will disprove all Religion. It will only cause those who rely on Freewill to take another look at how they view Freewill.

Answer 3

You really don't believe that we are not accountable for our choices, do you? There is an absolute moral law that transcends all cultures and times that cannot be denied. Although there may be different perceptions to those laws, the basis of all moral laws and the concept of fair and unjust are universal. To contend that outside influences (environment, education, etc) shape a person to the point that they no longer can choose what they want to become and the consequences that follow, is not accurate.

If we are not accountable for our own freewill, then why have laws period? Why have judges? Why have prisons? There is no escaping the fact of the existence of a moral law that holds us accountable. And if there is a moral law, there is a Moral Law-Giver.

Answer 4

Because if atheists have no free will, then they have to try to disprove religion. That's their destiny, and they can't choose otherwise.

I think most atheists do believe in free will. After all, if there's no free will, there's no point in learning anything, or doing anything, because you are already pre-determined (somehow) to do whatever you were going to do anyhow.

Pre-determination and the lack of free will are pretty big indicators that there is some other force controlling the universe and our actions other than ourselves. There's no proof that this is the case, and is pretty much the complete opposite of atheism.

Answer 5

While I agree with you, the debate over free will is only now starting to reach any level of public discourse. A lot of atheists, who have reasoned that there is no God, have not turned the same spotlight on their own free will. This would be a flanking attack on religion, and as someone else pointed out, there are ultra-calvinistic denominations that would accept the lack of free will into their theology.

I'm interested in how this discussion emerges in the public, particularly since our sense of justice depends on individual responsibility. The illusion of free will is just as powerful as the illusion of sight. (We only see colors because of the way our neurons and light receptor cells are configured. Visible light is only visible because of us, not because of some quality of the light.)

As a systems thinker, while I don't believe in INDIVIDUAL free will, I do believe that the interaction between the individual and their environment allow for the individual to influence what eventually they choose to do. We just don't have total control, and assuming we do can lead to huge amounts of guilt feelings or taking greater credit than any of us deserve.

Answer 6

Yes we have freewill, but within a confined context. Does that mean it is not freewill? I don't think so. Look at it as a child given a box of twenty four colored crayons and told he/she is to draw a picture of anything they like, but they must choose only seven of the 24 colors....

Every one of us lives within the confines of the universe and more specifically within one galaxy of the universe,and even more specifically within the confines of one planet in one solar system of the Milky way galaxy.

On that planet, we all have our circle of friends, acquaintances, and sphere of influence. We live within a certain geographical limitation, some maybe never leave the city they were born in, some may never leave their room, while others are globetrotters and jet-setters.

But ALL are given the choice of what picture they will draw. Some may have only one crayon, such as the people in the camps of Sudan in the Desert... while others may seem to have every color in the box to draw with. But still, the picture one draws is up to the artist, consequently freewill!

Answer 7

A number of religions believe in predestination, so focusing on freewill skips over them. It's religion as a whole that is the issue...not whether or not people actually make their own choices/decisions (that's a philosophy issue).

Answer 8

I think you're basing this on the answers in R&S - Athiests don't actually spend their time trying to disprove God, they just don't believe. Most often, Athiests try to live good lives that are not faith-based, and don't worry about the existence of God until they're confronted. You might have a tough time arguing for "character building traits religion provides to a society".

Answer 9

because religion is a man created ideal. freewill is a man made thought process. religion has done nothing for the world other than cause strife and hatred between people. It needs to end.

Answer 10

I don't have any desire to disprove freewill-I want to prove that religious dogma is flawed and that reason and logic are far better tools for living one's life.