How does the Catholic Church reconcile with Matthew 23:8,9 and 1 Timothy 4:1-3?

Question

Jehovah's Witnesses got me thinking...



Jesus was condemning religious titles with his words below; how does the Catholic Church reconcile Jesus' instruction with its fondness for such titles and with "Father" in particular?

(Matt. 23:8,9, KJV) But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.


The apostles and early church leaders were largely married, although it seems St. Paul wasn't (St. Paul even wrote to recommend singleness for the Lord). Yet even St Paul wrote that the then-future apostasy would forbid ministers to marry. How does the Catholic Church reconcile this seeming indictment?

(1 Tim. 4:1-3, KJV) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry

Answer 1

Jesus was clearly discussing religious titles specifically, and not simply a mindset or attitude. The whole idea of divinity schools and seminaries conflicts with true Christianity.

(2 Corinthians 3:1-3) Are we starting again to recommend ourselves? Or do we, perhaps, like some men, need letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, inscribed on our hearts and known and being read by all mankind. 3 For you are shown to be a letter of Christ written by us as ministers, inscribed not with ink but with spirit of a living God, not on stone tablets, but on fleshly tablets, on hearts.

(2 Corinthians 10:12) For we do not dare to class ourselves among some or compare ourselves with some who recommend themselves. Certainly they in measuring themselves by themselves and comparing themselves with themselves have no understanding.

(Matthew 20:25-26) Jesus, calling them to him, said: “You know that the rulers of the nations lord it over them and the great men wield authority over them. 26 This is not the way among you

(2 Corinthians 1:24) Not that we are the masters over your faith, but we are fellow workers for your joy


The seeming Scriptural indictment at 1 Timothy 4:1-3 is interesting. Who else or what else has ever claimed to represent Christianity and also "forbidden to marry" if not the Catholic Church? Jehovah's Witnesses see no other fit for this Scripture, and Catholicism seems unable to suggest one.

Learn more:
http://watchtower.org/e/kn37/

Answer 2

The book called the Bible does not exist from 33 ad to about 400 AD. The manuscript started to show up somewhere in about 45 AD [gospel of Mark] and floating around at that time. It is the Catholic Church that administers the Word of God. It took the Church about 350 years to search, collect, gather, edit and canonized the Holy Bible round 380-400AD. Approximately there were already about 35 catholic popes in placed at that time; thus the Catholic Church did gave the Bible to the world, for the protestants to twist into other 40,000 meanings... LOL.

Answer 3

If you want to use the 1 Tim verse, then scrutinize the Jehovah Witnesses as well. Compare the teachings and life of the early Church to the both the Catholic Church and the Jehovah Witnessess (particularly consider how they have reversed several teaching 180°, like celebrating Christmas).

But read more of the Bible, not just selected few. Read Mk 11:9-10 (refers to father David), Lk 16:24 (refers to Father Abraham), Rom 4:1 (father Abraham), Acts 7:1-2 (fathers and father Abraham), Rom 4:16-18 (father Abraham), 1 Thess 2:11 (Paul refers to himself to being like a father), 1 Jn 2:13-14 (fathers in general).

The point is, the term "father" is used in a positive light in Scripture. We all know that people refer to their male parent as father (I bet even Jehovah Witnesses do to) . There are other common uses, such as the early Church Fathers. So what is the difference? I think that you have to back up in Mt 23 to verse 1 and read it through. Jesus is talking about the Pharasees and how their true father is not God, but the devil. Starting with verse 15 there are a slew of "woe to" verses.

Answer 4

Pastor Billy says: a couple of points

Matt 23:8-9 if we are literally not to call anyone father than don't forget not to call anyone Rabbi but of course the NT wasn't wriiten in Hebrew, it was written in Greek and so we read don't call anyone Doctor(as Doctor in Gk means the same as rabbi, teacher)

So that means stop calling Billy Graham Dr. Graham and all the other Protestant pastors, stop calling any elder Dr.

also stop calling your birth father, father.

and stop calling Abraham father, but wait even Jesus used the title father for Abraham just read the scriptures and you'll discover that. and wait Paul called himself a father, he even said "I beget you" to his disciples what are we to make of that?

Would you like me to provide verse I have it here somewhere and there is lots from the lips of Jesus who calls Abraham , father Abraham.

point #2

If the Catholic Church prohibits marriage than explain to me why there are 1.1 billion Catholics worldwide?

If the Catholic Church prevents priests from marriage than explain to me why they allow married convert clergy, widower priests and younger married priests in the Eastern Catholic churches all fully united with the Pope?

To be a priest my friend is more than a job or vocation it is a calling in the Catholic understanding and this is why no one is forced into the priesthood unlike non-catholic pastorhood which does tend to be a family affair passing from father to son like a family business. Priests of the Roman Rite decide of their own free will to take a vow of celibacy hence they are not forbidden to marry because they are not forced into the priesthood this is really the group you are refering to but you aren't referring to all Catholic priest hence it is incorrect to say the Church forbides marriage of clergy when it does not.

look up a website called byzantine-catholics.

You see you lack the wisdom to understand that in 1Timothy Paul is speaking directly about a certain group of gnostics who are teaching a doctrine of forbidding to marry to everyone because they view the birth of new souls as imprisonment in evil flesh. The Catholic Church doesn't do this it in fact encourages youth couples to follow God's command to give birth and multiple.

A final word on the gift of celibacy by individuals Jesus was unmarried, Paul was unmarried. All the apostles you mentioned did not travel with family in tow while spreading the gospel do you think they were dividing their time evenly and being good earthly fathers? It is hard running one family as a father nevermind two and for that reason it is no wonder there is a high divorce rate among Protestant clergy who have a battle handling God's greater family and their own.

What we have here is a tradition of biblical interpretation that you cling to. I suggest you study how old it is you might be surprised.

Answer 5

The priests I've talked to sounded and acted just like Mr. K's description of the scribes and pharisees.

I guess Jesus knew what apostate Christians would be doing after he died.

At less they could have come up with a different title, other than father, then you could have claimed "we are not called father" we call them pastors, but oops that's a title to.

Answer 6

Jesus criticized Jewish leaders who love "the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men" (Matt. 23:6–7). His admonition here is a response to the Pharisees’ proud hearts and their grasping after marks of status and prestige.

He was using hyperbole (exaggeration to make a point) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers.

Christ used hyperbole often, for example when he declared, "If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell" (Matt. 5:29, cf. 18:9; Mark 9:47). Christ certainly did not intend this to be applied literally, for otherwise all Christians would be blind amputees! (cf. 1 John 1:8; 1 Tim. 1:15). We are all subject to "the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life" (1 John 2:16).

Answer 7

The "latter times" began the day Christ rose again from the dead. Lots of stuff has happened since then.

Ask your Jehovah's witness friends this:

Are they totally without sin?

If not, why haven't they plucked out their eye and cut off their hand yet?

Answer 8

The Catholic church holds there doctrine higher than the Word of God ,Catholics are sincere in there faith but very mislead , I just want one catholic to please tell me how many good works I must do to enter heaven .

Answer 9

The catholic church drives me crazy, but Father K gave a very good answer I must say
-atheist.

Answer 10

+ Call no man father +

In context, Matthew 23:7-9 reads, "... And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven."

This is call for humility for those in leadership roles. Not to be taken literally.

We are not to deny our male parent and cut the Commandment to honor our father and mother in half.

Some leaders in any church may fall into the same folly as the pharisees of Jesus' day.

Add: http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1991/9101dq.asp

+ Celibate Clergy +

In the Catholic Church, Marriage is a sacrament and celibacy is not. Marriage is not forbidden in the Church.

Celibacy is not dogma. It is a practice recommended for Church leaders in the Bible by the Jesus and the Apostles:

Matt. 19:11-12 - Jesus says celibacy is a gift from God and whoever can bear it should bear it. Jesus praises and recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church. The Bible recommends celibacy:

+ In Matthew 19:12, Jesus says, "Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."

Jesus says celibacy is a gift from God and whoever can bear it should bear it. Jesus praises and recommends celibacy for full time ministers in the Church. Because celibacy is a gift from God, those who criticize the Church's practice of celibacy are criticizing God and this wonderful gift He bestows on His chosen ones.

+ In Matthew 19:29, Jesus says, "And everyone who has given up houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands for the sake of my name will receive a hundred times more, and will inherit eternal life."

Whoever gives up children for the sake of His name will receive a hundred times more and will inherit eternal life. Jesus praises celibacy when it is done for the sake of His kingdom.

+ Matthew 22:30 - Jesus explains, "At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven."

In heaven there are no marriages. To bring about Jesus' kingdom on earth, priests live the heavenly consecration to God by not taking a wife in marriage. This way, priests are able to focus exclusively on the spiritual family, and not have any additional pressures of the biological family (which is for the vocation of marriage). This also makes it easier for priests to be transferred to different parishes where they are most needed without having to worry about the impact of their transfer on wife and children.

+ In 1 Corinthians 7:1, Paul writes, "It is a good thing for a man not to touch a woman."

This is the choice that the Catholic priests of the Roman rite freely make.

+ Then in 1 Corinthians 7:7, Paul says, "Indeed, I wish everyone to be as I am."

Paul acknowledges that celibacy is a gift from God and wishes that all were celibate like he is.

+ In 1 Corinthians 7:27, Paul writes, "Are you free of a wife? Then do not look for a wife."

Paul teaches men that they should not seek marriage. In Paul’s opinion, marriage introduces worldly temptations that can interfere with one’s relationship with God, specifically regarding those who will become full time ministers in the Church.

+ In 1 Corinthians 7:32-33, Paul teaches, "I should like you to be free of anxieties. An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord. But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife." And in verse 38, "So then, the one who marries his virgin does well; the one who does not marry her will do better."

Paul recommends celibacy for full time ministers in the Church so that they are able to focus entirely upon God and building up His kingdom. He “who refrains from marriage will do better.”

See also
1 Timothy 5:9-12
2 Timothy 2:3-4
Revevation 14:4
Isaiah 56:3-7
Jeremiah 16:1-4

This idea of a celibate clergy also came from the Jews, John the Baptist, Jesus, and the Apostle Paul.

The Jews. The Talmud argues that a person whose “soul is bound up with the Torah and is constantly occupied with it” may remain celibate (Maimonides, Laws of Marriage 15.3). For example, Yahweh ordered the prophet Jeremiah not to marry (Jeremiah 16:1-4). Moreover, the Essenes was a group that was active in Jesus’ time that practiced celibacy and thought by most scholars to be the authors of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

WWJD? What would Jesus do? Jesus did not marry.

John the Baptist and Jesus are both believed to have been celibate for their entire lives. Some scholars believe that the example of the Essenes influenced either or both Jesus and John the Baptist in their celibacy.

The Apostle Paul is explicit about his celibacy (see 1 Cor. 7). There is also evidence in the gospel of Matthew for the practice of celibacy among at least some early Christians, in the famous passage about becoming “eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 19:12).

The concept took many twists and turns over the years and will probably take a few more before Christ returns in glory.

A priest is "married" to the Church. Some people think that a priest who takes his duties seriously cannot take proper care of a wife and family. "A man cannot serve two masters."

+ Abstinence from foods +

The Catholic Church follows the Biblical practice of Jesus Christ and the Jews in setting aside days where the entire Church fasts and prays as one in a attitude of constant renewal.

Fridays were chosen because Jesus died for us on Good Friday.

Fasting is one of the three methods of interior penance along with prayer and almsgiving.

By the way, Jesus, as a devout Jew, only ate foods that were Kosker. He never ate pork or shellfish. And when John the Baptist ate "locusts and wild honey," they were Kosher.

+ With love in Christ.