Is it possible to find the "sun in a muddy spring" or is the Quran false?

Question

Quran 18:86 “(Zul-qarnain TRAVELLED till) when he reached the setting of the sun, he FOUND IT set IN a spring of murky water: NEAR IT (sun in spring) he found a people” http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/018.qmt.html#018.086

Back in Muhammad's time, the myth of the "sun setting into the earth" was commonly held. As you can see, the Quran perfectly captures the myth of its day.

If you believed that the setting place of the sun, was a place on earth, how could you better describe this event than the Quran does? Go ahead, describe a person find the sun in a muddy spring with more precision than the Quran.

All the leading translators agree on essentially the same version (check yourself). Zul Qarnain was "travelling", not standing still and "mispercieveing" the suns resting place.

Where did Zul-Qarnain "travel" to? He travelled to the "place" where the "sun" "set" "IN" the "muddy spring" (some translators say black ocean) and he "found" it "in" the muddy spring. Crystal clear.

Answer 1

Amazing how these people dismiss these facts about Islam. Its very much as if there is nothing that can be pointed out that will make them realize that this is just a horrible religion. Even the Germans bought into this stuff in the 1930's. It is when one group feels that their ideology has a chance at world domination. The Germans learned their lesson soon the Muslims will force the world to teach them as well. It is a cancer. Islam needs to hasten its reformation.One poor foolish one said it was OK to have sex with a nine year old..

Answer 2

East is the place where sun rise.

West is the place where sun set.


It should be noted if you travel underground, the sun set. If you travel from underground to the surface, the sun rise.

Zul-Qarnain basically go underground and meet a bunch of people. The setting was found to be in a watery thing.

But it never said the sun was IN the spring.

Sun and sunset, two different things.

Answer 3

I've been completely ignorant of this controversy... Thanks for bring it to light.

If it is written as you say and it's true that the common belief about the setting sun was incorrect, than it is certain that the writer of the Quran shows human fallibility and not divine purity. This ought to lead a thinking person to raise reasonable questions about other errors which may be in the text. of "God's" words.

If it is written as a metaphor, then the Quran must be taken differently than it is commonly understood - it would open the entire text to questions of reasonable interpretation rather than sealing the text as statements of absolute fact. The word of God
would lay open to doubt. The truth of Mohammad's teaching would become questionable and so would his authenticity as a prophet.

It would seem that this controversy would raise one question or the other in either case. Very interesting....

Thanks again.

{}{}{} r u randy? {}{}{}
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Post Script to angeltres...:

"circle" as is in how you sat during "circle time" in kindergarten.... You did complete kindergarten class, didn't you? I mean, you passed with at least a "D-"... Right?
.

Answer 4

“Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout: We said: O Zul Qarnain! Either punish or show them kindness.” (Al-Kahf: 86)

Here is a brief commentary to the above verse as mentioned in the books of tafseer (exegesis of Qur’an):

“Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun…”, means that Zul Qarnain followed a route until he reached the furthest point that could be reached in the direction of the sun’s setting, which is the west of the earth. As for the idea of his reaching the place in the sky where the sun sets, this is something impossible, and the tales told by storytellers that he traveled so far to the west that the sun set behind him are not true at all. Most of those stories come from the myths of the People of the Book and the fabrications and lies of their heretics.

“he found it setting in a muddy spring…” means that he saw the sun as if it were setting in the ocean. This is something that everyone who goes to the coast or beach can see: it looks as if the sun is setting into the sea, but in fact it never leaves its path in which it is fixed. The muddy spring or hami’ah is derived from the word hama’ah which means ‘mud’.

In his commentary on the story referred to in the Qur’anic verse, the prominent Muslim scholar Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, states the following:

“Indeed, the Qur’an is not a historical book where events are mentioned with their exact places and times. Rather, Allah mentions stories in the Qur’an so as to derive lessons from them both in present and future times.

Allah mentions that the story of Zul Qarnain in the Qur’an so as to derive lessons from it. The Qur’an itself did not mention who Zul Qarnain is. Also, there is no detailed explanation to his story. Where exactly did he go? To the east or to the west? There is not any mention of the people he went to. Added to that, there is no mention of names except for those of Zul Qarnain and Gog and Magog. The wisdom behind that is known to Almighty Allah Alone. But again, we are required to draw fruitful lessons from such stories, and we are not required to know every little detail about the minute incidents.”

Moreover, Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, Director of the Islamic Society of Orange County, Garden Grove, California and former President of the Islamic Society of North America, gives the following counter argument:

“The author of the flyer refers to the story of an ancient ruler mentioned in the Qur’an in Surat Al-Kahf. The Qur’an says that this ruler named Zul Qarnain traveled to distant lands. He went westward to a distant land near the ocean and he saw the sun was setting there in a murky pond. The translation of the Qur’anic words are “Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring...” (Al-Kahf 18:86). The author of this flyer took this literally and objected, how could God say that the sun was setting in a murky pond? He considered this a “foolish and false statement” and a proof that the Qur’an was not the word of God and that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) was not God’s Prophet.

In the New Testament, Jesus is reported to have said about the Queen of Sheba that she came from the ends of the earth (Matthew 12:42; Luke 11:31). Would the author also say that Jesus’ words were also foolish and false and would he reject him also? Obviously, we know that the Queen Sheba did not come from the ends of the earth. Yemen is not the end of the earth. The author would say that Jesus spoke metaphorically. We say the same thing, that in the story of Zul Qarnain, God spoke metaphorically.

The author claims that “the great Islamic scholars (such as Tabari, Zamakhshari, Baydawi, Jalalain, etc.) took this literally.” This is not correct. The fact is that most of the commentators of the Qur’an do not take it literally. Most of them explain that “the sun appeared to him as if it was setting in murky water.” The famous commentators of the Qur’an Jalalain say, “fi ra’y al-`ayn wa illa fahiya a’zamo min ad-dunya” meaning “it appeared to his own eyes otherwise the sun is bigger than the earth.”

The Qur’anic statement is clearly metaphorical, and this is the way it has been understood by most of the classical and modern commentators of the Qur’an.

Answer 5

So much for the claim that the Quran is scientifically accurate....


There is true "science" in the Bible:

Isa 40:22 [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
(Circle? Did the ancients know the world was round?)

Job 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, [and] hangeth the earth upon nothing.
(Come up with a better description of gravity?)

Answer 6

interior the Torah (which knocks down Judism, Christianity, and Islam abruptly), the so-stated as writer of All issues... Knower of all issues... Who ought to understand each element of each element he created... proclaims the bat to be unkosher seeing it is an unclean chook.

Answer 7

Ever seen a mirage on the horizon at dusk?

Answer 8

My opinion is that anyone following the Quran is being deceived by Satan.

Merry Christmas.

Answer 9

ive talked to muslims about this but they try to dismiss this as poetry even though it comes from a complete narrative

Answer 10

Sorry, I believe Mohammad to be a false prophet and his book to be a lie. That's just me. I've read it.