How could Jesus be the Messiah when...?

Question

he doesn't fit the requirements? http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/jews-jesus/jews-jesus-index.html

Does Messianic prophecy not matter in terms of locating the Messiah, or what?

Seriously Christians, he obviously isn't the Messiah, so what does he have going for him? (See link)

Psst... Hey, guys, I'm not a Jew and I never claimed to be...

Also, I see a lot of people saying "Ask him when he comes" or "he'll fulfill that later".

Well, the Jewish Messiah doesn't have to come back later, he would do it in his own lifetime. And there are certain requirements that would be impossible for Jesus to reverse (I.E. Having to be a direct BIOLOGICAL descendant of King David)...

TJ: Oh I see, he has the Constantine era propaganda going for him...

Thanks Paul H, I love the ask a rabbi service. I did ask a rabbi about something of this sort earlier, and here's what he said:



Here is the Answer to the question you posted to Ask A Rabbi on 8/29/06

You asked:
What do the prophecies of the Tanakh say about the messiah, and what
are the requirements that the messiah has to fulfill.

Here is the Answer to the question you posted to Ask A Rabbi on 8/29/06

Thank you very much in advance,

On 4/14/00
Rabbi Roller answered:


If you were interested in an intellectual approach, I'd recommend The
Messianic Idea in Judaism, by Scholem. Klausner's The Messianic Idea in
Israel is also excellent. There is also an excellent article in the
Encyclopedia Judaica. I would also recommend Bleich's With Perfect Faith.
(continued)

This book is a commentary on Maimonides' 13 Principles of Judaism (one
of which is belief in a Messiah).
In general, I take the approach favored by Maimonides, which says
that, for the most part, anything we believe about the Messiah, afterlife,
etc. is largely speculative at best.
The traditional texts we have all refer to the Messiah as male.
Whether this means that the Messiah must be a male is open to debate. The
Messiah is clearly viewed as human. Originally, the whole concept of
Messiah (literally, anointed one) was based on the idea that this person
would be the restorer of the throne of David (thus being anointed as
King). In time, the concept became extended.
Belief in an individual Jew, who will bring about a series of
long-hoped for, almost miraculous events, is an ancient part of the Jewish
tradition. Both the Bible and the Talmud speak about the Messiah a great
deal, but there is actually no, single, unified understanding of when the
Messiah will come

and what they will actually do.
By the way, the word Messiah is English for the Hebrew word, Mashiah.
This word literally means, "anointed" i.e. chosen or selected by God
for some task or mission.
Despite the fact that every Biblical book and individual rabbi has
their own unique and separate idea as to what the Messiah must accomplish,
a few tasks seem to be generally accepted. Whoever is the Messiah will
have to:
a) Be a descendent of King David
b) Gain political control over the ancestral land of Israel
c) Bring all Jews from everywhere they live on the world back to Israel
d) Bring about a universal worship of the one God
e) Usher in permanent, worldwide peace.
Belief in the eventual arrival of the Mashiah is extremely deeply
rooted in the Jewish tradition and this hope is included in many daily and
Sabbath prayers in the Jewish prayerbook.
However, at the dawn of the modern era, approximately 200 years ago,
many Jews felt uncomfortable believing that one person could

possibly
bring about such miraculous events. Therefore, liberal denominations
within Judaism began to "update" their belief in the Messiah. They
declared that there would be no individual human being that would be the
Messiah, rather, all Jews and humanity in general, were already working
towards a "Messianic era" in which these goals would be fulfilled.
The outbreak of the two world wars with the Holocaust and the
proliferation of nuclear weapons, however, severely eroded many people's belief
that humanity was working towards a "Messianic era" and many people
have once again reverted to a vague hope in the coming of an individual
who will be the Messiah.
To conclude, I must stress that Judaism is a religion that stresses
one's deeds more than one's creed. It is more important to observe Jewish
rituals such as observance of the Sabbath, Kashrut (dietary laws),
daily prayer, charity, moral behavior, than it is to believe in the
Messiah. What a person believes is his or

is his or her own business. How they behave
is much more important.
I hope this helps answer your question. If you would like to find more
information about this subject, I recommend consulting the books,
Jewish Literacy, by Joseph Telushkin (published by William Morrow and Co. in
New York, 1991). It is a popular book, readily available, and contains
a great deal of information about a wide variety of Jewish customs,
ideas, and historical events.

N the Messianic prophecies foretold us about the Messianic Age we find:
"The wolf will live with the lamb, the panther lie down with the kid,
calf, lion and fat stock beast together, with a little boy to lead them.
The cow and the bear will graze; their young will lie down together.
The lion will eat hay like the ox. The infant will play over the den of
the adder; the baby will put his hand into the viper s lair. No hurt, no
harm will be done on my entire holy mountain, for the country will be
full of knowledge of Yahweh as the

the waters cover the sea.
Return from the dispersion."
Isaiah 11:6-11 (The New Jerusalem Bible --1990)
Now did those prophecies come to past in the days of Jesus? In a word:
no. This prophetic vision did not come to fruition. Jesus might have
wanted to be the Messiah, but he didn't succeed in making this prophesy a
reality. Being a failed Messiah does not make a person an impostor.
There are many stories of people who tried to bring redemption to the
Jewish people but failed. Thus, he failed and it is for this reason, the
Sages could not accept Jesus as the "Messiah."
Does this notion of the failed Messiah have any basis in classical
Jewish sources?
Yes. Rabbi Yitz Greenberg, an Orthodox rabbi and disciple of Rabbi
Soleveichik, has argued that the religious community ought to stop thinking
of Jesus as a "false Messiah" but instead ought to consider Jesus as a
"failed" Messiah. The difference is significant: a " false" denotes a
pretender, a phony who because of his own arro

of his own arrogance, deliberately
intends to mislead others in following him. A "failed Messiah" denotes a
person who has sincere messianic aspirations, but because of circumstances,
did not succeed in realizing these hopes into reality.
Maimonides in his Laws of Kings (Hilchot Melachim) compares Jesus and
Mohammed to Bar Kochba, who was a "failed Messiah" and not a "false
Messiah." Both men served to promote the knowledge of monotheism in the
world.
One thing is certain regardless whether one holds that Jesus was a
"failed Messiah" or "false Messiah": Jesus played a dramatic role in world
history. Even Maimonides himself was dumbfounded why Jesus, a man who
left no writings whatsoever, should have been one of God's messengers
for disseminating monotheism to the world. If one believes in Divine
Providence, and subscribes to the belief that nothing is happenstance in
the world, we must say that Jesus the Jew played a great role in
unfolding of God's plan in the world...

Anyway, there was more to the letter, but other things call...

Answer 1

i agree Jesus is just as good to religion as the ultra brats
but if you have proof that Jesus made world Peace
and come on if he is the Messiah how come his father is always kills
over 100.000 people a year
and people almost all the time ACT like ther fathers
so jesus is going to kill a lot of poeple

Answer 2

Lol, all those things have been done. He of course returned the Jews, only now they are "spiritual Jews" with "circumscisions of the heart, not of the flesh." Also, New Jersusalem has been restored to Heaven and will return to Earth (see Revelation) when Christ returns for his Millenial rule. There the Temple has been restored.

Also, Joseph IS of descent of David, in the LEGAL sense. He is a direct descent from a male line from David, from the Tribe of Judah (1 of only 2 tribes EVEN EXISTING AT THIS TIME. The others having already been lost to the Babylonians and the Diaspora!) Also, Mary being an only child had the full inheritance rights as a Jewish daughter, meaning that Christ Jesus would have inherited the throne THROUGH HER! The fact that David was of the line was a side fact. Besides, how much HOLIER can you get than having Jehovah God as your father? Definately more Royal that having King David as a Forebear!

As for the Torah portion, that will only come to occur when everyone on Earth bows to Jehovah God, and that will only be during Christ's millenial reign on earth (again, see Revelation). So, you see, everything you mention is and has been done, historically. The rest is explained fully in the New Testament and in fact, he fits EVERY prophecy fully! Its just your loss you can't see the beauty of it.

Answer 3

I am going to read the link, but first, I want to congratulate you on being maybe the first Jew I've ever seen evangelize. Wow.


OK, I read it. There are some major untruths in there regarding Christianity, so it is completely discredited as far as I am concerned. Also, you need to understand that Christians believe Jesus said that He is coming back. It is at that time you will see many of the prophecies fulfilled.

Answer 4

There were over 300 Old Testament prophecies about Messiah that were fulfilled by the life of Jesus Christ. If you just took 8 of these prophecies, the odds of a person coincidentally fulfilling all eight of these would be one in 10 to the 17th power. Since we can't easily picture what that means, he gave this illustration: Suppose you took the state of Texas and spread silver dollars two feet deep across the whole state, then marked just one of them and buried it somewhere in the state. Then, if you chose one person, blindfolded him, and told him to pick just one silver dollar, his chances of getting the marked one on his first try would be one in 10 to the 17th power!

Answer 5

VERY interesting. Most Christians are absolute clueless that Jesus wasn't worshipped AS God until the time of the Emperor Constantine - 300 years after his crucifixion. I'm asking a rabbi about the accuracy of the link to your page, but if it is accurate, then thanks for enlightening me. Happy Hannukah!

Answer 6

What is your problem? People have faith, no matter the religion. Does it bother you so much that you have no true faith of your own? Isn't it time for your bigotry to fade into the shadows? People believe what they want to, and it's not your obligation to try to dispel or destroy someones faith. I notice you haven't told us your faith. Why don't you just crawl back under your bed and leave the rest of the world alone?

Does it make you feel like a Big Man to belittle other people from behind the security of your front door? I think you are a coward. I also don't believe you to be a Jew. Jews respect Jesus as one of their own and still regard him as a great man.

Answer 7

Sorry, there are holes in the cited site's criteria.
For one, the geneology Luke's geneology is actually that of Mary.
Mary's father was Heli.
Joseph's geneology is is in Matthew.

Interesting the both Mary and Joseph had geneologies that traced back to King David. One through Nathaniel and one through Solomon.

Answer 8

Seems as though you have twisted or, left out facts a bit, just to make your point.. The time of peace will appear after the tribulation. You seem to conveniently omit some of the prophecies, which further disprove your claim.

Answer 9

Looking at the link you suggested... I know that you've been saying that for at least two thousand years now. And there's really no point in debating it any further, is there??

Let's just break bread and share some gifiltefish instead...

Peace be with you.

Answer 10

Your link takes quotes from the bible. If you think Jesus isn't the Messiah (as the bible does state) why are you using it as your facts? It doesn't make sense. If you don't believe some of the bible is true, why believe any of it?