Should 'Prayer' be defined as 'magic'?

Question

In the study of religion among primal peoples you find that many believed in "magic". Magic is defined as the belief that supernatural forces can be controlled, influenced and manipulated by executing a ritualistic formula, either physical or verbal. We still, today, in a more fashionable way, utilize superstition, prayer wheels, magic, sacrifices and elaborate doxologies to induce God to favor our requests, grant our wishes and perform miracles upon demand.

Minister, Rabbi and priest are expected to offer prayers on behalf of the desires of their congregation. Does this not make God a divine magician? And does this not make the minister or priest a magician's apprentice?

- William Edelen
Source: http://www.secweb.org/index.aspx?action=viewAsset&id=191

Answer 1

I LIKE this question! I was just talking to my mom about how, on "The X-files", Mulder would believe almost anything that WASN'T religious, whereas Scully WOULD...and the reverse (she was skeptical about aliens, monsters, gov't conspiracies, but totally bought Christian "miracles").

Anyway...I think prayer IS a form of supplication TO a belief in magic, not the actual ability to perform magic itself. However, many Wiccan adepts might disagree, saying that the spells/chants themselves, are the same as prayer, just not to the same deities/forces.

Let's let any Wiccans or other Pagans out there, answer...as I'm out of my depth on this one. I regard prayer, generally, as a waste of time, since the cosmos is causally predestined, in my view.

I think prayer of any kind just makes people feel better AND more "in control"...which they're NOT.

Answer 2

I think magic can be a poetic word used to describe the works of Priests or Priest-Crafters.

Remember when all the wise man and magicians were to be executed by the king for not telling him his own dream?

If I remember right, Danial and his three men of God were on the list to be killed. But they prayed and were able to tell the king his dream by the power of God.

So there is a power that brings light, understanding and life to the world and a power that brings darkness, confusion and death to the world no matter what people try to call these powers.

The words majestic and majesty can be used to describe God and the works of God. So why not?

Answer 3

Magic exists in story books.
It is called illusion on stage for a reason.Early man knew there was something more than themselves. They worshipped God in a very primitive way. They had a very simple faith and thought they could control God.

Mature prayer is not manipulating, controlling or influencing God. God answers all prayers with yes, no or later.
Miracles happen because it is His will.
You pray because you believe and worship God. You can pray that it will all be right or perfect but it don't always work that way. Those that think it can find themselves seriously angry at God because it didn't turn out to be their way.
Most atheists are what they are because they didn't get what they wanted and figured it was easier to not accept at all then to be patient with life.

Answer 4

i see the point, and one could make that comparison.

prayer- magic spell- meditation- ritual- creative visualization- kria shakti- the law of attraction

the words are symbols that are meant to convey a certain meaning. this is one of the unfortunate shortcomings of religion. misunderstandings and denial of other (different) symbols pointing at the same Truth.

anyway, i believe that prayer is the same as meditation- or a magic spell- to direct your attention into creating a certain outcome. controling or focusing the thoughts with the result of making your intention manifest in reality.

we are powerful creators, and what we don't realize is that we create our own experiences with our thoughts. you don't need a priest, minister, rabbi, monk, or guru to do this for you. we all have this magical power. yet, it does help to have a master teacher, who just might be a priest, rabbi, minister, monk or guru. it excelerates the process and one can become more conscious at a faster pace than with no teacher.

or it could be the old wise man that lives down the block or inspiration from a book, or a spiritual teacher, or the wisdom gained from sitting in mediation. there are many paths.

~peace

Answer 5

God is not a Magician, And Priest's are not Apprentice.

Prayer's are not Magic.

A prayer is the same if you would ask someone a favour expect for the fact that you are asking it from God and not a Friend.
Sometime's you ask your friend a Favour and he/she will do it or will not.
Sometimes you ask a favour (say a prayer) to God and sometime's you get what you asked and sometimes Not!
Depends on what you're asking.
If God was a Magician then whatever somebody asked for they would get it.
and if God was a Magician, I would be sitting on my Boat with a guy that look's like johnny depp with a glass of orange-vodka in my hand.
But sadly, I can only sit on "a Boat" with a orange-vodka.

Answer 6

No, prayer is not magic. Someone once said- "Prayer does not get God ready to do our will, it gets us ready to do His". When we pray we are aligning ourself with the Creator. We do not do "sacrifices" or anything in order to "win" God's favor. Prayer is a way of getting to know God, not get things from God. Granted, He does answer prayer, but not always the way we would want. God answers prayer in 3 ways- YES, NO, or WAIT. He knows what is best for us.

Answer 7

Of all these answers, I think JP and Dierdre hit upon the heart of the difference.

In magical workings, you're using your own will to influence circumstances directly.

In prayer, you're asking a higher power to influence those circumstances *for* you.

Answer 8

Prayer-Probably from G142; properly prayer (as lifted to Heaven), that is, (by implication) imprecation:.

It is talking to the Lord and lifting up your needs in life as well as others. It also includes saying thank you to the Lord for all He blesses us with. It is not magic. Magic is an illusion which is not real but designed to look real. Magic is trickery.

Prayer is powerful and can change a person's life drastically in the most positive way beyond your imagination. Praise the Lord!!

Answer 9

Prayer is different than magic in that it is suplication rather than control.
The definition of "pray" is "ask", which is why in the slightly archaic version of English, one might say "I pray thee sir, please tell me the time of day."

Where magic is a formula to cause extra-physical forces to act in accord to your will, prayer is a request that deity might hear you, and, if it be their will, to grant your desire.

In Magic, if things don't happen in accord with your direction, the fault is in your formula or execution. In prayer, if your request is not granted, it is because it was not what deity desired at the time.

The main difference is in who has ultimate control. Failure of magic is due to the ineffectiveness of the magician or witch. Failure of prayer is simply the contrary desire of deity.

Answer 10

Looking back at my religious studies class in college, no, they're not the same.

Magic is an attempt by the individual or group to influence the world around them directly. Prayer is an attempt to convince the gods/nature to influence the world. The difference is the source of the power.

Under these defintions, however, an invoking magician could in fact be considered to be praying, as he invokes the deities to convince them to change the world. Only the evoking magician, the one who says, "By my OWN will, it is done!," would be performing magic under that definition.