The Millennium - a serious theological question - When?

Question

(a) Jehovah's Witnesses claim the second coming happened INVISIBLY in 1914 and the 1,000 year reign of Christ is a FUTURE event. Does that imply there must be a THIRD coming?

(b) Is this Pre-millennialism or is it a variation of Pre-millennialism, or is it even worthy of consideration?

PRE-millennialism: Christ's 2nd coming/ending of human history. Anti-Christ slain/evil removed then 1,000 years peace on earth when Christ rules his people. Satan freed at end then the final conflict resulting in defeat of Satan.

POST-millennialism: Earthly reign of 1,000 years when gospel preached and spread PRIOR to 2nd coming.

A-millennialism: Symbolic (Greek 'a' meaning without). 1,000 year reign exercised in heaven with Christ and refers to the gospel age between the two comings of Christ.

Definitions of millennialism as given above taken from 'Know the Truth' by Bruce Milne.

JW's - PLEASE resist the temptation to lecture us on your beliefs re 1914 - been there, done that.

Bob, this isn't about arguing and I agree faith is what it's all about. But there are some people out there with strange ideas! Oh, if any JW disagrees with what the governing body tell them to believe, they could be disfellowshipped so I can't agree with your first comments about many JW's not holding to this teaching. They would not remain JW's for long.

auchtung.h - this is not philosophy, it's theology (you know, Theos =God). But then you don't believe Jesus is God, do you?

Buzz's - Thank you for stating what is patently obvious to me - but not to those who do not understand the history of that organisation known as JW's. Suscinct and to the point. You've made my day!

Answer 1

This is a good q because it shows how diverse beliefs are about the Mill (which is exactly what Jesus said would happen - "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect - if that were possible. See, I have told you ahead of time. So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the desert,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it.")

It's also a good q because JWs are a warning example of falling into that trap. Contrary to what one answerer said, the vast majority of JWs have all subscribed to their leaders' teaching that Christ came INvisibly in 1914. This is still printed in their literature today, but they now make a fuss of Christ's future, THIRD and VISIBLE coming, so they hold to a variation on the pre-mill view but it's not orthodox despite it now sounding surprisingly similar to the orthodox pre-mill view!

However, another answerer was right to say speculation on when the mill will come is largely a waste of time. We should live every day as thought the Lord was about to return (or come to receive us on our death-bed). Thoughts are worth while if they get us to focus on the unexpectedness of Christ's return to earth and to concentrate on having the faith he will be looking for then (Luke 18:8). That faith is a gift from God. We cannot work it up by lots of study and the doing of 'good works' (though both are commendable). We should be found on our knees every day, beseeching the Lord of the Harvest to have mercy, because the harvest is great but the workers are few, and saying, "Here am I! Send me!" And it just so happens that one way of engaging in this ministry is using the Internet to God's glory. It's not about points, or winning 'Best Answer'! But God, in his grace, may cause individuals to 'happen upon' a particular point that will 'speak' to them. So, God bless all who ask and search and knock sincerely at heaven's door - not the Watchtower Society's door - because our heavenly Father delights to give good gifts to his children.

Answer 2

Christ makes it quite clear that NO ONE knows except the Father when the end times will come. He and the prophet Daniel, however did leave behind a few clues.

A) Jewry will return to the Holy Land: check , well sorta, as most of them haven't, even among those who could.

B) The temple will be rebuilt: not yet. Gotta get those pesky Muslims and their Dome of the Rock outta the way first.

C) The Son of Man will come in glory from on high: obviously not yet.

Ergo, this whole exercise is pointless.

As for the JW's, bless 'em. They've predicted the end times in their lifetimes since the original founder first started up his printing press. Four times so far. OOOPS!

It'll come when it comes. Take a page from Christ's parables and be like the wise virgins, ever vigilant and ever ready for it through a life lived in Grace.

Answer 3

STEP BY STEP ORDER OF LAST DAY EVENTS TO JESUS SECOND COMING

Michael of Jude 9; and Dan.12:1-13; in Rev.12:3,4,6-11,12; fulfilled Gen.3:15; the oldest prophecy in the bible.
John 3:13-17 Jesus returned to heaven, no one but him, to wait.
Acts 2:27-35 [ foes are Satan and unholy angels ]; Matt.22:42-44 [ David was a prophet, the enemies Satan and unholy angels, must come to be on footstool earth ];
Heb.1:1-13 [ Jesus is to wait until the enemies Satan an unholy angels are down ];
Rom.16:20; The apostles expect Satan to be under their feet.
Satan cast down ends Empire #7, Satan has a short time in the 8th to Rev.20:1-6;

WITH SATAN AND UNHOLY ANGELS CAST DOWN LAST DAYS BEGAN

John 6:39,40,44 [ the raised up at the last day ]; John 14:3 [ I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU THAT WHERE I AM THERE YE MAY BE ALSO ]; Mark 13:27; Heb.12:22-24; Rev.3:12; When heavenly collected Rev.20:1-6 [ No Satan 1000 years ];
Michael is there to the last 1Thes.4:15-17; The caught up to be with Jesus.
1Cor.15:22-28,51-53 [ The heavenly body and the earthly body ]; Matt.25:31-34; THE SHEEP. Rev.7:9-17 [ The great tribulation survivers ];
Dan.8:12-14 [ Truth to world 2300 after Babylon Empire #3, in Empire #7 ];
Dan.12:1-7 [ 2500 after Babylon Empire #3, is Michael ];
Dan.12:8-10 [ 2520 after Babylon Empire #3, ends Empire #7, Satan Down ];

EACH END TIME PROPHECY TELLS THE SAME THING ABOUT SATAN TO JESUS

Rev.9:1-5 [ 5x 30 = 150 ]; Pit is open for Satan, THE SEALED OF GOD ARE THERE.
Rev.9:12-16 [ Euphrates angels prepare 391, Rev.16:12-16 Euphrates Troubles ];

Matt.24:3,7,14,15,22,34,36-38 [ Only God knows day and hour Rev.12:7-12; to Rev.20:1-6 the 1000 year reign of Christ ]; If 6,130 after Eden, God knows day & hour.

Rev.17:10:14 #1 to #5 Empire Greece has fallen, Jesus and John are in Roman Empire #6, #7 has word of God and Satan is down, 8th Satan has a short time to second coming of Christ.

Answer 4

The problem of course is that the JW's changed what they said. Christ was supposed to return bodily in 1914. He was then to come in 1915 and then 1918. The change came when they realized that Christ did not come. The physical return was changed to a spiritual return.
In fact, Christ has not returned yet invisibly because that is a violation of prophecy.

Answer 5

Some JWs thought this, many did not. Just as most, if not all, religions have splits over certain issues so did the JWs.
Also, arguing with religiious people over points like this is a futile exercise. Faith is the biggy here and no amount of conjecture will change that

Answer 6

The rapture comes first. This is the snatching away of those who believed in Jesus as their savior and innocent children.
Then comes seven years of tribulation, then comes Christs millennial reign on earth.

Answer 7

Jehovah's Witnesses are uninterested in debating philosophy and philosophical terms. Instead, Witnesses teach plainly from the bible itself.

The term "coming of Christ" is better translated as "presence of Christ"; after all, Christ's "first presence" lasted 33 years! True Christians such as Jehovah's Witnesses feel that the ongoing second "presence of Christ" is easy to discern by comparing current events with the list of signs Jesus gave immediately after each of these passages:

(Matthew 24:3) Disciples approached [Jesus] privately, saying: "Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence

(Luke 21:7,24) Teacher, when will these things actually be, and what will be the sign when these things are destined to occur?

There is no need to attach artificial names to these periods of time (or other supposed periods of time), since neither Jesus nor the bible writers do. Jehovah's Witnesses understand the Scriptures to teach that God's Kingdom will soon replace all earthly governments.
(Daniel 2:44) God of heaven will set up a kingdom... It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite

That Kingdom will rule over the vast majority of mankind, most of whom will have been raised from the dead after Armageddon.
(John 11:23,24) Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”
(Acts 24:15) There is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

Until that resurrection, there is no suffering in "hell", or the grave. Sometime after the resurrection, death and "hell" will themselves be destroyed.
(Ecclesiastes 9:5) For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all
(Ecclesiastes 9:10) there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol ["hell"]
(Revelation 20:14) And death and Hades ["hell"] were hurled into the lake of fire

While a limitted number of humans will be resurrected to heaven to share in ruling over mankind, the vast majority (literally more than 99.9%) of Jehovah's Witnesses expect an EARTHLY hope, the same hope given to Adam and Eve.
(Genesis 1:28) God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill THE EARTH and subdue it [caps added]
(Genesis 2:17) You must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die [so never eating from that tree means never dying]

Interestingly, the Scriptures are full of references to this earthly hope.
(Psalms 37:11) 'the meek will possess the earth'
(Proverbs 2:21) 'upright will reside in the earth'
(Isaiah 45:18) 'God formed the earth to be inhabited'
(Matthew 5:5) 'the mild will inherit the earth'
(Revelation 21:3) The tent of God is with mankind

Learn more:
http://jw-media.org/beliefs/trueworship.htm
http://watchtower.org/e/jt/

Answer 8

Just shows you can't trust their version of how they have read the bible, and with JW it's usually means money is involved, I would not be surprised to see them selling tickets for it

Answer 9

I would go for (b) PRE-millennialism: good description.